This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I guess I should add that I do have sympathy for both sides as well. In the same sense that I have sympathy for a stranger dying of an inoperable brain tumor. I certainly wouldn't wish this situation on anyone, but that doesn't change the fact that it exists. My apathy is largely born out of the fact that there is almost nothing that can be done given the historical / cultural forces at work. Those measures that might actually work would take immense resources, and I think it's hard to justify giving such resources away with no clear benefit.
I guess this is just one of the flaws in modern Western thought; the idea that all problems A) are solvable, and B) are worth solving no matter the cost if they involve human suffering. This is in many ways analogous to the whole mass migration debate. In its most basic form, this a refusal of the idea that sometimes we have to make difficult decisions. It's saying that we should be allowed to make the comforting, happy decision all the time, and the world must accommodate this. So essentially, it's attempting to deny reality itself, and hoping everything will work out for the best. History has not been kind to this type of thinking.
Sometimes I do but often, in my darker moments, I think "fuck 'em". Because this stranger had access to the best oncologists in the world and decided to pull a Steve Jobs and try some nonsense. Do you know how many peoples with grievances wish they could have had a tenth of the effort and attention poured into this cause for themselves?
How many people have been murdered and ethnically cleansed with not even the prospect of justice? These people are inordinately centered and it seems to have only fed their own narcissism.
I try not to go down the fuck'em route for two reasons. Firstly, most people had no say or were not even born yet when these decisions were made. Holding groups of people responsible as if they were individuals doesn't make a lot of sense. Secondly and more importantly, cruelty out of malice rather than out of necessity is not something I'm okay with morally. Cruelty is a fact of life. But inflicting it on others for no personal gain other than some sense of schadenfreude is about where I draw the line.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link