This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This is both different from Opt-out's initial proposition (that democracy was only compatible with Anglo/European cultures) and doesn't seem to match empirical evidence either. The UK is a multi-ethnic democracy and has been since the 19th century (arguably earlier, though its democratic credentials were more contestable before 19th century reforms). The US has had a more or less continuous infusion of ethnic and religious minorities for its entire existence (many of whom remain both unassimilated and uncontroversial, e.g. the enormous number of Catholics who failed to convert to the dominant religion in the US). Patronage relationships between voters and politicians is a problem in Latin American democracies, but this does not follow ethnic or religious lines. Hell, India is ridiculously multi-ethnic and multi-religious, and its rapid economic growth continues apace.
This line of thinking seems to be taking the US' relatively unusual system with respect to durable anti-black racism and concluding that it is a) a universal feature of democracy, rather than a particular problem with a large block of American voters being hostile to African-American civil rights b) an existential problem for democracy.
Nonsense. The UK had been effectively genetically unified for a thousand years, we didn't have any meaningful numbers of non-native-ethnics in the UK until the second half of the 20th century and they didn't have meaningful political representation until the 70s. If by multi-ethnic you mean Scottish and Irish then you have to deal with the fact that they are more similar to the English than to any other group of people by genetic distance, far more so than eg the average Portuguese to the average Spaniard. There is nothing in English history that even approximates the current position of having 10% of the population coming from different continents.
Ethnicity is not a function of genetics. Balkan slavs (e.g. Serbs, Croats, Slovenes) have a high degree of genetic proximity and yet would generally take exception to the proposition that they are basically one people.
Unless we're positing some kind of psycho-genetic resonance, genetic proximity of the English, Scots, and Welsh is irrelevant to the hypothesis. The important thing is that they regard themselves and each other as being distinct peoples.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link