site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 6, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

16
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

As someone that has not only read but reread Atlas Shrugged, I don’t agree with your cause map of why I enjoyed the book as a teenager at all. In fact, it sounds like yet another indictment of libertarians as “temporarily embarrassed millionaires,” which has always been a poor effort by leftists to use their love of power dynamics and status games to try to explain values anathema to their own. My enjoyment of Rand’s work can be attributed to exactly one personality trait/flaw: I hold in very low regard the kinds of people who insist they have a right to my time or energy.

My enjoyment of Rand’s work can be attributed to exactly one personality trait/flaw: I hold in very low regard the kinds of people who insist they have a right to my time or energy.

So her work clicked with you because it was a compatible opinion. Her political stance didn't convert you, it was "yeah, she gets it about moochers and looters!"

If you will pardon me, it's also a teenage trait to be self-obsessed, because that's the time we're trying to figure ourselves out, who we are, and what our place in the world is. The depths of our own selves are endlessly fascinating, because we don't know what we'll pull up when we go trawling there. And that kind of deep gazing takes a lot of time and energy. So naturally "my time and energy is too important and vital, others need to demonstrate they've earned the right to my attention" is a stance appealing to the adolescent who feels pulled every way by the demands of family, school, peers, society and trying to set the quicksilver changes of mind and body into a more fixed shape to develop their own personality and character.