This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
There’s two movies that always come to mind that I thought left an important remark about the nature of evidence.
There’s a fairly unremarkable scene in Enter the Dragon (the Bruce Lee movie), where he and some British guy are sitting in a room, watching an overhead projector roll tape on Han’s island as he’s getting the briefing on things. By the time he finishes explaining everything to Lee, Lee turns around and says something to the effect of, “If you’re sitting here and showing me all this, why don’t you just bust in on Han’s island and take him away?” And the guy says back, “We know everything. We can prove nothing.” The other movie is Shawshank Redemption, and the first few scenes in the beginning where Andy’s being tried in the courtroom and is being accused of murdering his wife. The prosecuting attorney is questioning him about the gun and he says, “Isn’t it remarkably convenient that you say you threw your gun into the river and yet there’s no evidence that was recovered? Isn’t that just all too convenient?” And Andy replies back by saying, “I actually find it awfully inconvenient that the gun was never found.”
I have been in both those kinds of situations where the same logic at work applies. I’ve sat across from people in discussions where I 100% knew they were lying, because I was standing right next to them when something that became questioned happened. And they knew they were lying. You could read it by the smirk on their face. But, I had no evidence to present. Why would I be so concerned with evidence? It’s not like I’m doing anything wrong. This is the mentality honest people operate with and it’s how they get screwed over by dishonest people. I’ve become so burned and so cynical from certain people I grew up with, I meticulously document what it is I do, such that I always have something that amounts to evidence and proof of no wrongdoing by me. Even when there’s nothing even remotely suggesting something questionable, in the most innocent circumstances. It’s why I never delete text messages and haven’t in over a decade; I archive emails before deleting them; I put text notification alerts on every financial transaction I make, etc.
"It's not what you know. It's what you can prove." - Alonzo Harris in Training Day.
My sibling loved that movie. Probably why I hated it.
It's a great character and a great performance in search of a better movie for both.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link