This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It's the dominant strategy in any sufficiently non-homogenous country that has voting. It's divergence and democracy that creates and enables the redistributive pressure often expressed as 'socialism'. In fact one could say that the concepts of capitalism and socialism as they exists in the minds of many are only really consistent with the notion of the 'have nots' taking from those who 'have' or vice versa.
With that in mind, there's a lot to be said for the lack of 'socialism' in homogenous Scandinavia. Despite the large welfare state and high taxes, that model looks dramatically more appealing and feels completely different from anything referred to as socialism in America since most people in Scandinavia are in some form a 'haver'. With personal dignity and private life that, when all is said and done, is pretty nice. Contrast that with Brazil or increasingly large parts of America where the number of 'havers' is proportionally decreasing. What on earth would the 'not havers' do with their vote and work other than to vote and work themselves into the pockets of those who 'have'?
It's an interesting refutation of the conservative conception of America and its freedom, democracy and free market capitalism as a whole. The American conservative does not believe that the state should be used as a tool to reach into the pockets of its citizenry to redistribute their wealth. That should be done through market forces. But when the 'have nots' mobilize within the market, exert enormous pressure on companies and bend them, sometimes literally, to their ideological will, suddenly that's not allowed either!
It need not be said that conservatives are getting their asses handed to them. The mainstream of society is dominated by liberal/leftist/progressive voices. To be normal is to not be a conservative.
The conservative then, out of necessity, increasingly argues in favor of an ideological socialism of sorts. Every idea should be treated equally. Everyone should have freedom of speech, thought and the capacity to express themselves in any educational institution they want without fear or reprisals. And if any company wants to censor one viewpoint, they should then necessarily have to censor any other. It's either all politics allowed or no politics allowed! And so forth. It can't be that their ideas are getting outcompeted, no. It's corruption in our media and universities, collusions and ideological monopolies.
This entire predicament is an indictment of the neoliberal class of elites that proposed that these conditions of diversity could be managed, and the conservatives who greedily accepted the neoliberal proposition since they believed it would make them money and, ultimately, that there was no way that they would lose in the free market. Hell, maybe the neoliberals were banking on that as well.
But no, modern society is not ignoring the new underclass of berry pickers and cleaning ladies. Who don't want your smiles and thank you-s or 30 minutes off on the occasional Friday. They want your money, they want your power, they want your life. And within a free market capitalist enterprise they are under no obligation to play by anyone's rules but the markets. And the market is responding to their actions and demands.
Americans are greedy even now, to act as if they are heading for 'Brazilification' and not something worse.
More options
Context Copy link