site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 13, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

15
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

How many books do you read from before 1920?

I'm the wrong person to ask, because insofar as I read fiction, it's mostly from before 1914, and all of it in recent years has been from before 2001. World War I and 9/11 mark important (though not overwhelming) points of decline in Western culture in my view.

However, I agree on your basic point. A certain minimum curiousity is required to explore beyond one's culture, and e.g. the Victorians are effectively an alien culture for people in the West today. However, it is reassuring that those few who have curiousity can often still read and enjoy e.g. Jane Austen or George Elliott, even when they are very woke.

Whenever I feel downhearted about it all, I remember the heroic Irish monks who worked so hard to preserve the glories of Antiquity, despite their inability to produce anything of equivalent value. If we can get through the next few centuries of self-imposed Darkness while preserving the glories of the past, I would consider that a great achievement, even if European civilization and its American/Oceanic offspring never produce a Dante's Inferno, Middlemarch, Pride and Prejudice, Macbeth, or The Brothers Karamazov again. The greatest challenge in such a Dark Age, apart from the swordpoints of barbarians, is convincing the next generation that such ideas are worth preserving. So many great works of the human race have been avoidably lost, because their value was not seen.