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naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   38925 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 27, 2023

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So, what is the money that he paid for?

? He paid for her silence. It is her silence that benefits him. That is the forbearance.

This law obviously makes so little sense, at least given the way you're interpreting it, that it would pretty blatantly run up against major Constitutional concerns.

  1. It is not how I am interpreting it. It is how the FEC interprets it, in their regulations

  2. What Constitutional concern? Name one, with supporting authority, not one that you make up. Because when the Court says ""The Constitution does not prohibit legislatures from enacting stupid laws" but you say, "yes it does," I am going to think the Court is right, not you.

If you can draw a line that avoids letting the gov't ban books/requiring every purchase of diet coke be reported,

  1. I don't have to draw a line re banning books, because the Court can simply say that the law as applied to book bans, is invalid.

  2. Re coke cans, that is easy: "A contribution includes sales of goods or services at below normal market value, where such sales from a single source total more than $1,000." No free cokes must be reported!

But simply digging in your heels and saying that you don't need no stinking lines and it doesn't matter if it's stupid, just let us do what we want to do and prosecute Orange Man

This is just bullshit. As it happens, my position is: 1) the sole purpose of the prosecution is to enhance the future electoral prospects of Alvin Bragg; 2) the prosecution will help Trump; 3) the prosecution of a candidate for high office sets a terrible precedent; such prosecutions should only be for very, very, very serious crimes.

Anyhow, I still have no idea what your claim is re this particular prosecution. You keep talking about coke cans and books, but what does that have to do with this case?

what is the money that he paid for?

? He paid for her silence. It is her silence that benefits him. That is the forbearance.

Right, and when Trump buys a diet coke, the money is to compensate for the seller forgoing the use of that diet coke. So far, your reasoning still applies to buying diet coke.

It is not how I am interpreting it. It is how the FEC interprets it, in their regulations

Right, and if they go to the Supreme Court and say that they can ban books prosecute people for not reporting their diet coke purchases, they're going to lose.

What Constitutional concern? Name one, with supporting authority, not one that you make up. Because when the Court says ""The Constitution does not prohibit legislatures from enacting stupid laws" but you say, "yes it does," I am going to think the Court is right, not you.

They have ruled that the Constitution only allows them to implement campaign finance laws for the purposes of reducing quid pro quos or the appearance thereof, where one of the quid or the quo is political favors, not just money.

I don't have to draw a line re banning books, because the Court can simply say that the law as applied to book bans, is invalid.

Similarly, the law as applied to simple transactions where money is exchanged for other things (at the normal market rate, as Trump apparently did), is invalid.

Re coke cans, that is easy: "A contribution includes sales of goods or services at below normal market value, where such sales from a single source total more than $1,000." No free cokes must be reported!

Then Trump is probably fine. He paid normal market value! This would be as a matter of legal fact, nothing to do with politics/political motivation/etc. Just a fact about the law.

Right, and when Trump buys a diet coke, the money is to compensate for the seller forgoing the use of that diet coke. So far, your reasoning still applies to buying diet coke.

Except that providing goods and services for below-normal prices is not the only way to make an in-kind "contribution." The rule re providing goods and services for below-normal prices is not at issue here. It does not seem to be the theory being relied upon by the DA.

Right, and if they go to the Supreme Court and say that they can ban books prosecute people for not reporting their diet coke purchases, they're going to lose.

But they are not saying that. You are arguing that the rule defining contributions to include providing goods at below normal prices is invalid, even though it has been around forever and has withstood judicial scrutiny.

They have ruled that the Constitution only allows them to implement campaign finance laws for the purposes of reducing quid pro quos or the appearance thereof, where one of the quid or the quo is political favors, not just money.

Yes, for the ten-thousandth time, THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT THAT THERE BE AN ACTUAL QUID PRO QUO. Avoiding the APPEARANCE is enough, which is why ALL CONTRIBUTIONS must be reported, including providing goods on the cheap FOR MONEY.

Similarly, the law as applied to simple transactions where money is exchanged for other things (at the normal market rate, as Trump apparently did), is invalid.

?Similarly to what? Banning books is an obvious First Amendment violation. Requiring a campaign to report expenditures and receipts is not.

Then Trump is probably fine. He paid normal market value!

Again, the claim is not that Stormy Daniels provided goods and services at below-market values.

The rule re providing goods and services for below-normal prices is not at issue here. It does not seem to be the theory being relied upon by the DA.

....so, for probably the fifth time... what is the theory? Every single time I've asked, you've simply gone back to, "They have to report, because it could be below market value." If that's all you've got, we can be done here.

Yes, for the ten-thousandth time, THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT THAT THERE BE AN ACTUAL QUID PRO QUO.

For the ten-thousandth time, THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID. I said:

They have ruled that the Constitution only allows them to implement campaign finance laws for the purposes of reducing quid pro quos or the appearance thereof, where one of the quid or the quo is political favors, not just money.

If their rules actually have that purpose and are tailored appropriately for it, they're okay. If they're obscenely poorly tailored... like, for example, if their rules allow them to ban books... then it's not going to fly. They need to link their rules, and the purpose of those rules, to reducing quid pro quos or the appearance thereof. Before you again misread this and impute to me a claim that I think they must show an actual quid pro quo, that is NOT what I'm saying, and you're just lying if you impute it to me again.

Banning books is an obvious First Amendment violation. Requiring a campaign to report expenditures and receipts is not.

If those requirements actually touch literally every member of the campaign's grocery bills, I'm pretty sure we're getting close.

Again, the claim is not that Stormy Daniels provided goods and services at below-market values.

WHAT IS THE CLAIM?!?!?!

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