site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 27, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

How curious that both of these are Chinese inventions too!

On print, China had a similar revolution of letters in the Early to High Middle Ages, and on cannon, not only did they first discover gunpowder and invent the cannon all the way back in the 12-13th centuries, they kept up with European advances at least until mid-late 17th century*!

So there must be something different here at play that either enabled Europe to dominate the world, and/or incentivised them to, that for one reason or another did not happen in other societies.

*Granted, mostly from importing European technology and specimens, though the Chinese would come up with e.g. composite metal casted cannons that Europeans would adopt. Albrecht Herport, a Dutch soldier fighting on Taiwan (against Ming dynasty remnants) noted that the Chinese “know how to make very effective guns and cannons, so that it’s scarcely possible to find their equal elsewhere” — likely an exaggeration, but indicative that the Chinese were not complete laggards in this regard. The original source is afaik Voyage to Java, Formosa, India and Ceylon (though I might be wrong), and the English translation of that quote is found in Tonio Andrade’s The Gunpowder Age.

Or, something that prevented China from taking complete advantage of their initial lead, which is the standard explanation.

Or both!