This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
My memory of the Democrats' response to Bush II was that it was a lot more co-operative than to Trump.
The Bush tax cuts got 13 D votes in the house and 12 in the Senate, the Trump tax cuts passed on a pure party line vote.
That centrist Congressional Democrats were willing to carry water for the Bush administration on Iraq (as was the Deep State, which I think we both agree counts as part of the mainstream centre-left) has been the cause of much Democratic infighting after the Iraq war turned out to be a mistake - Trump didn't try to fight a war of choice, but the idea that he would get the level of bipartisan support that Bush did over Iraq seems far-fetched.
Pelosi didn't impeach Bush after the Dems took control of Congress in 2006 - despite widespread calls for impeachment from the left, the media, and from a noisy minority of former conservatives driven into shrill unholy madness by the mendacity, malevolence, incompetence, or simple disconnection from reality of the George W. Bush administration. Pelosi impeached Trump the first time on semi-bullshit charges - the left wanted her to pull the trigger as soon as the Dems took the House in 2018, but she held off until the Deep State were annoyed as well.
She then impeached him again - although I am comfortable he deserved it the second time, it was in practice pure partisan theatre given there wasn't time for the process to complete before his term expired.
Congressional Democrats shut the government down twice in order to force concessions from Trump on immigration policy. There were no shutdowns under Bush II.
IF you go back to Reagan, he got broad bipartisan support for his tax reforms, and he wasn't impeached for Iran-Contra even though he should have been. There were a lot of budget battles between Reagan and Congressional Democrats with multiple government shutdowns, but I think they were all about the budget, rather than the Congressional Democrats shutting down the government to extract concessions over something else.
You are conflating the overheated partisan hatred that the Very Online progressive left has had for every Republican president since Reagan with the overheated partisan hatred that the mainstream centre-left (Dem Congressional leadership, the NYT, the Deep State etc.) has for Trump.
More options
Context Copy link