This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Although your central claim is fairly reasonable: "People claim that it’s hard to be healthy, get enough protein, or not be deficient in key minerals on a vegan diet", I think the rest of your post ends up primarily engaging with a weakman.
Very few informed people disagree with the claim that it is "possible to be [moderately] successful athletically on a vegan diet."
The standard points of disagreement are as follows:
How hard is it to hit all macros and micros on a vegan diet (typically in comparison to a comparable omnivore diet)
Is a vegan diet optimal from a health and/or performance perspective
Since you are either ceding or not interested in the latter, let's focus on the former.
Based on what you have shared it does indeed sound like you have a healthy diet & lifestyle. But you are also putting in vastly more work than the average person would. So much so that I wonder if you realize how unwilling the average Westerner would be to do anything like what you have done:
Train consistently & intensely enough to become an elite runner
Track micros and macros (not sure how religious you are, but very few people are willing to do this)
Get regular, discretionary bloodwork
Analyze the bloodwork and make appropriate lifestyle changes
Adjust supplement intake based on season
None of the above would be realistic to ask most patients. Even just asking them to eat a few more forkfuls of greens or drink one less soda per day results in abysmal compliance rates after any length of time.
In terms of ease, I'm of the opinion that the average person who will never count macros let alone micros is going to have fewer significant deficiencies if they eat meat than if they do not. Would you agree?
Anecdotally, as someone living in a trendy coastal area I know several people who have switched to a vegan diet. None of them ended up healthier, at least one of them ended up needing medical intervention as a direct result.
(edited right after posting to fix one word)
More options
Context Copy link