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Culture War Roundup for the week of May 8, 2023

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Re: Haidak I have to plead ignorance on how much of the UMass grievance procedure is shaped by Title IX requirements, but either way I don't think it is really that important to the broader point.

I mean, it was your example, so to backpedal when it becomes clear that the example cuts against your argument seems like poor sportsmanship, but sure.

If 'government jobs where I feel that the cost outweighs the benefit' comes under 'bullshit jobs' then it's a stupid and pointless framework.

There's nothing about feeling happening here, and it is bad rhetoric for you to sneak that in there. My argument is that the supposed "benefits" of Title IX could have manifested without bringing along the obscene degree of bureaucracy. You conceded that point:

I suspect that as you suggest the growth of women's sports was happening anyway

And that's all you need to concede to agree with me. A bullshit job is not a job where nothing ever happens, or nothing meaningful ever happens, or things happen that I don't like. It's a job that either adds nothing, or is actively harmful, compared to a world where the job was never brought into existence in the first place. And you have already conceded everything you need to concede for Title IX jobs to fit that description. I think someone else has already pointed this out to you elsewhere in the thread, but you seem to have an idea of "bullshit jobs" that does not match with the sociological writing that coined the phrase.

I mean, it was your example, so to backpedal when it becomes clear that the example cuts against your argument seems like poor sportsmanship, but sure.

In fairness I conveyed my point rather badly wrt Haidak; all I meant to argue is that sexual harassment procedures in universities would be meaningfully different (or indeed non-existent) absent Title IX and its administrators which it does seem like you agree with even if the changes have been for the worse.

As for the second point, when I said that the growth of women's sport was happening away, I did add that Title IX accelerated it and pushed it further than it would have gone otherwise, so it does add something in that regard. We're moving towards going in circles here, but if you include things 'actively harmful' I think the concept is worthless. If that's out of step with Graeber's intention then fair enough, but I would suggest that bullshit jobs is a terrible phrase if that's how he meant it.

Edit: to be more specific what I mean is that if his intention (though I think Graeber's book was more geared towards the private sector) was to class as bullshit jobs any government or government-required employee pursuing a goal than is held to be unwise, then I could start calling all sorts of jobs 'bullshit' just because I think they exist with a view to pursuing unwise policy.