site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 22, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

What's the greater evil: my psychopathy, or OP's incel-ism?

I am OP, and I'd rather suffer privately than cause a bunch of other innocent people to suffer for my sake. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Does it really matter that one uses evil means when the evil means exist only in my subjective qualia, not in the objective outside world?

The objective outside world includes a number of women whom you have personally treated as disposable playthings. People get hurt when they're treated that way.

What's the evidence that women are hurt by his nonchalantness?

They're fine enough to sleep with him at least.

Less anxiety in the world is better

What's the evidence that women are hurt by his nonchalantness?

"Nonchalantness" is selling it short. Butlerian describes his attitude as psychopathy. That's literally the word he used. He also used the word "evil" and the phrase "women are disposable playthings to me and I have absolutely no concern for their feelings at all beyond the instrumental requirements to get them to sleep with me"

I would have thought that the destructive nature of this approach would be self-evident.

If you'd like proof, though, here's a paper about psychopathy in romantic relationships: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0306624X211049187

And here's a few personal testimonials:

https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/zjuxja/im_tired_of_guys_who_just_want_me_for_sex_and_lie/

https://www.readunwritten.com/2017/01/26/im-tired-guys-wanting-not-wanting-date/

https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/1462bbn/guy_just_delivered_my_order_asked_for_my_and/

https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/1467tq1/the_goddamn_audacity_of_men/

Less anxiety in the world is better

Psychopathy often causes abundant anxiety in its victims.