This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Armenia is at least a real place, and Azeri a real people. They are both made up of matter, unlike ideas, which are not. Blood and soil, to borrow a phrase, are real and true things in a way that ideas are not and have never been.
The retort writes itself. The land Armenia sits on is real, sure, but the material importance it has is limited - drop the exact same population into Kansas or Nigeria and the ethnic Armenians would be able to farm and organize just as well. A communist who defends communism that happens to sit on a particular piece of land is different - how - from someone who holds an idea of a blood-and-soil tie to a particular piece of dirt that - in a literal sense - they'd be able to hold perfectly well on another piece of dirt? At best, the 'soil' is a metaphor for the people and their folkways. Unfortunately for Azerbaijan and Armenia, and every other country on the planet, material concerns have caused them to adopt the "folkways" of modern America and western Europe. Can you even name a concrete way of life or difference in genetic tendencies that differs between Armenians and Azerbaijanis? One that's worth killing over? And those are ... still differences in ideas. If Europeans are slightly more individualist than the Chinese, how is that more real than an entirely different political philosophy and strucure? And the difference in 'people' between Armenia and Azerbaijan are caused more by historical geopolitics between greater powers than they are anything else.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link