naraburns nihil supernum
2yr ago
(text post)
31375 thread views
Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
I empathize with the writer, but any piece that concludes "I don't have any answers" I think loses the right to say "but this isn't the answer". There are no good options here, I think we can all acknowledge that. But there are options, and one of them must be chosen.
In my opinion the least-bad choice is the liquidation of Hamas and the ongoing occupation of Gaza to prevent a similar group arising in their place. It may or may not even be possible, and if it is possible it will cost a lot of lives. But it at least has half a chance of preventing the large scale organized terrorism Hamas perpetrates and can prevent the kind of brainwashing (like kindergarteners being made to act out terrorist operations) that makes the ongoing cycle of violence impossible to break.
"I don't have any answers" I think loses the right to say "but this isn't the answer".
Hard agree on this. What makes Israel vs Palestine so difficult isn't that it's a complicated history, since that's true of nearly every major conflict. The problem is that it's gone so far down the toxoplasmic spiral that neither side is willing to compromise, so there are only bad options. But one must be chosen as you said.
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I empathize with the writer, but any piece that concludes "I don't have any answers" I think loses the right to say "but this isn't the answer". There are no good options here, I think we can all acknowledge that. But there are options, and one of them must be chosen.
In my opinion the least-bad choice is the liquidation of Hamas and the ongoing occupation of Gaza to prevent a similar group arising in their place. It may or may not even be possible, and if it is possible it will cost a lot of lives. But it at least has half a chance of preventing the large scale organized terrorism Hamas perpetrates and can prevent the kind of brainwashing (like kindergarteners being made to act out terrorist operations) that makes the ongoing cycle of violence impossible to break.
Hard agree on this. What makes Israel vs Palestine so difficult isn't that it's a complicated history, since that's true of nearly every major conflict. The problem is that it's gone so far down the toxoplasmic spiral that neither side is willing to compromise, so there are only bad options. But one must be chosen as you said.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link