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Culture War Roundup for the week of October 16, 2023

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Your reply is very enlightening and makes sense, thank you.

While I'm not of the mind that all women "want it" just as much as, or in the same way as, men, I wonder if it's true that the majority of women loathe hookups and get no sexual pleasure from them. (I do not dispute that they--hookups, or casual sex without long-term commitment in general--seem mostly downside for women, not even just relative to men but objectively).

Your explanation for why, then, they participate in them (because of exposure to unrealistic media, or again, as a strategy to wrest commitment out of a man) seems as if it could account for some behavior, but I wonder. In the past I knew a number of (younger) women who seemed less interested in commitment at that point in their lives than I was, and certainly were more heavy into hedonistic partying. Now maybe these were a subset of very attractive women who follow their own playbook, and it's possible over time they grew into having more of a view similar to yours, I can't say. But they certainly didn't act that way when younger.

A quarter to a third said flat-out that there was nothing good about the experience.

Rephrased that says 3/4 to 2/3 said they did gain something from the experience. Other comments from that table:

Benefits, I got an orgasm

I had sex and received oral sex. I think everyone needs to have a healthy sex life and have sex often. I think as long as you take precautions sex is good for you.

You also write:

Among those who reported "benefits," some said they had a learning experience about what they didn't want.

3% of respondents made comments that were placed in the factor of "learning experience," and of those, yes, they all said the learning experience was negative. But that's still only 3%.

The results section:

Of the women enrolled in the larger study, 262 (62%) reported a hookup and answered the open-response item, and are included in this report. Of these, 186 (71%) reported at least one benefit from their most recent hookup; their average response consisted of 12.7 words (SD = 12.6, range 1-79). Among those reporting benefits, 65% (n = 120) listed one benefit, 30% (n = 55) listed two benefits, 5% (n = 9) listed three benefits, and 1% (n = 2) listed four benefits, for an average of 1.4 benefits (SD = 0.64, range: 1-4). Table 1 displays the benefit categories and exemplars for each. The most frequent benefits were sexual pleasure (23%) and general positive emotions (21%). Notably, 29% noted there was no benefit to their most recent hookup.

Notably yes about a third did not state any benefit, or, put another way, stated there was no benefit. ("i cant think of any in my most recent" was one of the responses that made it to the paper.) I don't know why it is less notable that 2/3rds (the majority) did not lean this way.

I guess at my age I would agree that casual sex for females is risk-heavy, and certainly risk-heavy compared to the same activity for boys, but I can't help but think part of this is still just age talking, this is me forgetting what it was like to be young. And the first paper you're referencing doesn't change my mind.

The second paper seems less interesting in some ways but considerably more rigorous, but then I tend to doubt studies in sociology of this sort, especially when they have neat conclusions. Before that seems like a disagreement, let me point out that at the end of the paper they write:

In light of the methodological limitations of prior research and the results of the current study, there does not appear to be evidence of a causal relationship between hooking up and depression among women.

One study revealed that 25% of college students with hookup experience reported unwanted sex during college, compared to 0% of students without hookup experience (Flack et al., 2007).

It's kind of flimsy honestly. If you don't have a car, you don't get in car accidents usually.

In one study, almost two-thirds of women reported wanting their hookup to become a romantic relationship (Owen & Fincham, 2011); they may experience emotional distress if this transition does not occur.

They took an action hoping it would bring further benefits(who doesn’t), and the lack of this (in some cases) is supposed to invalidate the original decision?