site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 27, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

They backed up even my silliest teachers.

Yeah, my parents definitely didn't do that. I heard all about my mother's ongoing struggle with teachers and the ASD's administration over my education since preschool, and by 4th grade, I'd already corrected my teachers too many times on math and science mistakes to assume competence. I vividly remember a junior high vice-principal telling me outright I had "no business being that smart," and if he could, he'd've had me denied access to math or science classes until my age-peers could "catch up." I had a teacher tell me to 'quit pointing out that you're smarter than me.'

(Well, it also didn't help that my mom, even now, describes her late mother to people by starting with "remember the meanest teacher you had in school." This was a woman who taught Special Ed primarily because learning-disabled kids are easier to bully.)

My brothers and I also got our own version of "the Talk" about police, and to always be perfectly compliant and deferential to them… because they are all trigger-happy petty tyrants who will go out of their way to wreck your life if they think you don't respect their authoritah.

My parents are also fond of that Reagan quote our education secretary tried to turn on its head. "Government is simply the name we give to the things we choose to do together." Bullshit. Government is not "us," government is "them." Government is that asshole up in the castle sending the Sheriff of Nottingham out to squeeze you dry.

adults were basically competent until proven otherwise, which was the correct assumption given my social milieu.

Perhaps this comes down to me growing up at the bottom edge of the working class — materially poorer than the neighbors on government handouts. Did you ever have to hunker down in an apartment bathtub at age seven or so with your brothers because it was the safest place from a stray bullet, waiting for the gunshots to stop?