This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The confounder is and always will be that they already hate Whiteness, or white supremacy or settler colonialism whatever term is being used today.
Israel just happens to be the most recent country (with the largest number of people making a counter-claim) that could fit in the mold of "white settlers". If Rhodesia or apartheid South Africa still existed they might get the same reaction
No one cares about Jordan for the same reason nobody cares about South Africa now, regardless of how things are going over there.
The other thing is that the left-wing coalition is diverse. There are a lot of Arabs/Muslims who appropriate the language of anti-colonialism because it's the language of the dominant power but are really just angry they lost to Jews - they don't care about "imperialism" since they glorify the conquests of the Sahaba, they just absolutely hate Jews as Jews. Hence the videos of misbehavior on London streets. Whether or not progressive white college students agree or are simply useful idiots who truly believe they're fighting apartheid and the "victim" they're supporting really want a real multiethnic one-state solution...is a harder one.
But, even granting that, I don't know if it lets them off the hook. A decade ago the progressive line was "intention isn't magic" and now we have the Kendian view that anything that sustains disparities is racist regardless of reason or intention. There seems to be a double standard and absolute hysteria around Israel regardless
If your first instinct is to support the mass rape of Jews and to create ludicrous standards (Kyle Kulinski recently argued what's going on in the ME right now is worse than anything we've seen since the Nazis which is...) you are damned by the very standard you would use for your enemies.
More options
Context Copy link