This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Right, anyone who's being humiliated by having their hypocrisy or questionable ethics pointed out, especially so publicly, will likely want to fight against the humiliation. That's understandable. That doesn't make the person any less (or more) deserving of being humiliated.
Sure, but the nobility of the goal is different from the effectiveness of the tactic. Obviously, many people do believe that there's a noble goal here, but regardless, if the goal, noble or not, is to reveal the hypocrisy or incoherence of the person and thus humiliating them, I don't see how putting oneself in the shoes of someone being humiliated changes things.
If I were to put myself in the shoes of someone who deserves to be humiliated, whether that be someone like SBF on trial or someone being questioned in Congress, I would easily consider my own response to be nothing but contempt and refusal to cooperate. Because if I had as bad judgment and character as those people as to voluntarily corner myself in this situation, I would likely lash out in any way I can out of frustration at my own incompetence or (more likely, IMHO) my deluded belief that I was being unfairly attacked due to some [bad political forces] despite the fact that I did everything right. Regardless, I come to the conclusion that the person was deservedly humiliated independent of my empathy for them. Like, I can feel empathy for Saddam Hussein as he's wildly ranting while on trial in 2006, understanding that if I were a psychopathic dictator who put myself into this corner, that I would be at the end of my rope, grasping for every straw I can, pound the table as loudly as I can, and perhaps be rather mentally off due to the despair or denial of what surely seems like my upcoming conviction and execution. This empathy doesn't somehow make his wild ranting look any more noble or any less deranged to me. Nor do I find any sort of antipathy for the people who decided to place Hussein in this position where his wild ranting is an understandable response that I can empathize with.
More options
Context Copy link