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Culture War Roundup for the week of March 4, 2024

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if God doesn't treat them as morally different, it indicates that they are morally equal.

I don't believe that any sin will land you in hell, but again, even if one did, that doesn't mean they're punished equally, or that equal punishments are the full extent of God's treatment of them on a moral level. Many Christians believe in different levels of hell. Also, God could punish all sins equally but still consider some worse than others.

If there was a moral distinction, wouldn't that (a) be made clear in the Bible and (b) factor into punishments?

It is made clear in the Bible. I can keep finding verses, I bet there are at least a few dozen on this level, but Luke 12:47-48, Ezekiel 8:13, and John 19:11 all clearly indicate the existence of greater and lesser sins.

Proverbs 6:16-19 directly mentions a few sins which God hates more than other sins.

It certainly factors punishments too, both divine and temporal. The Law of Moses punishes different sins differently, and Jesus on many occasions implies that the punishment for some sins is worse than others.

For example Matthew 18:6 says:

but whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Again, I'm sure I can find plenty more, but there are quite explicit verses talking about different punishments for different sins. At this point we've established:

  1. Some sins have different punishments than others
  2. Some commandments are more important in the eyes of God than others
  3. God hates some sins more than others

What exactly is left in the meaning of one sin being more "morally" important than another? To me it sounds like you're relying on that word when we've already extracted all meaning from it. I'm not aware of any verse where someone explicitly says "X commandment is morally more important than Y commandment" but again all of the relevant meanings of the word moral that I can think of are covered in pretty much exactly that way.

I think that the Bible was created by scholars and outlaws in a largely illiterate and philosophically alien time, with no more or less divine inspiration than any of the other thousands of bewildering religious texts that have emerged from human minds, so it doesn't surprise me that this sort of issue is not made clear in the Bible

So, based on conversation of expected evidence, the fact that the Bible is clear about the opposite, and clearly mentions multiple times the existence of greater and lesser sins, the greater punishment assigned to greater sins, and the increased importance which God puts upon those greater sins, should surprise you at least a little. Such an incoherent and illiterate book should not have been so clear about such an esoteric issue.

I can just keep finding verses that directly back me up, whereas your point is so much more indirect and relies on weird, esoteric, indirect readings of verses whose plain meaning is fairly obvious.

I'm not too sure about the exact history, but I do know that Augustine was a divine command theorist.

Augustine is a lot later than my church (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) believes the early Christian church fell into apostasy. At the latest it happened with the Nicene Creed which happened decades before Augustine was born.

As far as the other two, "maybe you're wrong!" is really not a strong argument or worth mentioning at all.

If your point is that DCT is wrong, and therefore early Christianity is wrong, well, I agree with you there. But to claim the Bible preaches DCT, and then fall back on "well the Bible is incoherent so it's no surprise it's not very clear about supporting DCT" after I've found multiple clear passages opposing DCT, is too far. It sounds less like you have an actual opinion regarding what the Bible teaches, and more like you've discovered an obviously-wrong interpretation of the Bible and are trying to use it to prove that the Bible is also obviously wrong.

It certainly factors punishments too, both divine and temporal. The Law of Moses punishes different sins differently, and Jesus on many occasions implies that the punishment for some sins is worse than others.

Hmm, that's a good move and a plausible argument. I hadn't thought about differences in temporal punishments. The other arguments you cite are less persuasive, e.g. shifting from "God hates X more" to "X is morally worse," given that it's not clear what an attitude like hate means for an omnipotent and otherwise incomprehensible being. So I don't think it's clear, but I grant that there is a plausible argument to be made.

But to claim the Bible preaches DCT

When did I claim that?

Maybe not DCT but things like this:

If Jesus or the Bible had provided a comprehensive ranking of sins with varying degrees of sinfulness, then it's obvious consistent with a Christian DCT, but as you know that's not the case.

strongly imply that you think there is no ranking provided, and that the Bible states that all sins are equal. Further discussion has provided more evidence of this.

The other arguments you cite are less persuasive, e.g. shifting from "God hates X more" to "X is morally worse," given that it's not clear what an attitude like hate means for an omnipotent and otherwise incomprehensible being.

Sure, but tabooing the word "morality" for a moment, what exactly would the Bible need to say to convince you that not all sins are equal? "God dislikes some sins more than others" is covered in the Bible. "These commandments are more important than these other commandments." is covered. "You will be forgiven of some sins but not others" is also covered. I can't think of anything the Bible could say to contradict your point that it hasn't, besides using the exact same word that you are using.

strongly imply that you think there is no ranking provided, and that the Bible states that all sins are equal. Further discussion has provided more evidence of this.

A comprehensive ranking and a ranking are different, right? I put in "comprehensive" exactly because I know that there are some Bible passages that could be interpreted as elevating some sins as more morally important than others.

For example, consider the set {1, 2, multiplication, blackbirds}. We can put two of its elements into a numerical order, but not all of them.

Sure, but tabooing the word "morality" for a moment, what exactly would the Bible need to say to convince you that not all sins are equal? "God dislikes some sins more than others" is covered in the Bible. "These commandments are more important than these other commandments." is covered. "You will be forgiven of some sins but not others" is also covered. I can't think of anything the Bible could say to contradict your point that it hasn't, besides using the exact same word that you are using.

"Equal" in what sense, given our taboo? Also, a sufficiently similar synonym would be a contradiction. After all, we're really talking about texts in Ancient Greek and Ancient Hebrew, so any such term will not be the taboo word or a grammatical modification of it.

"Equal" in what sense, given our taboo?

Any sense really.

any such term will not be the taboo word or a grammatical modification of it.

If you can actually find the taboo word or a modification of it, feel free to use it. My point is that while the Bible may not precisely contradict your point using the exact same word, it does seem to contradict any possible meaning of your point.