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Culture War Roundup for the week of April 1, 2024

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Are you happy with the current state of Roman Catholicism everywhere? The German bishops? The current pope? Blessings for same-sex couples?

(1) No (2) Should all be defrocked (3) Not a fan but he's not Satan or an anti-pope (4) Again, not a fan, but once again that will likely be taken as an excuse by those who would do it anyway to go farther than intended

I think if we brought Luther forward in a time machine, he would recognise the Catholics as much the same as he had been fighting, but he would have no idea what the Lutheran church had become. So yes, I'm sticking to "the Reformers did found new denominations, not just reform the existing church". For one thing, they pretty much 'reformed' in different directions from each other, and the Anglican mess under Henry was "I'm only reforming" so he happily burned at the stake both Catholics for opposing him and Protestants for going further than he wanted. And when his son came to the throne, he had been influenced by the very Protestant nobility around him to take the 'reforms' even further. Then Mary tried reversing that with no success, and Elizabeth (and her spymaster) settled on making it a political question rather than religious - so now you would be executed for treason, not heresy, for not being in line with the state church and the monarch as its governor.

I think if we brought Luther forward in a time machine, he would recognise the Catholics as much the same as he had been fighting, but he would have no idea what the Lutheran church had become. So yes, I'm sticking to "the Reformers did found new denominations, not just reform the existing church".

I don't get your point here. Could you elaborate?

For one thing, they pretty much 'reformed' in different directions from each other,

This isn't especially true. They were pretty clearly doing a bunch of the same things: administering the Lord's Supper to laity more frequently and in both kinds, read scripture in the vernacular (with more of an emphasis on the preaching of the word, in general), allowed clergy to be married, put an end to the veneration of images and relics (with variation as to whether they allowed those images to continue to exist), ceased praying to Mary and the saints, had two sacraments, and made use of congregational singing (not sure if this was less true of Anglicans), among others.

With regard to doctrine, they all would have affirmed justification by faith alone, distinguished justification and sanctification, contrasted law and gospel, affirmed predestination, denied purgatory, taught views other than transubstantiation (though with considerable variation between those views), elevated scripture above tradition, and not recognized Rome to have authority, among others.

Yes, I recognize that catholics since followed them in a bunch of those practices.

I don't get what you're trying to argue regarding the church of England. Henry should not be considered protestant, and Mary obviously wasn't, but the church of England clearly was protestant under Edward and Elizabeth and following. The 39 articles, for instance, is very obviously protestant (all protestations of Newman to the contrary, laughable), and pretty mainstream. This is less true of modern Anglicanism after the Oxford movement.