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It isn't as if the current social arrangement is only held up by men in general wanting to have their cake and eat it. You really are fixated on men at primary to blame movers and shakers and as if such things are just an adversarial negotiation between men and women. Actually some of male influence has also to do with male feminists, so it isn't' as if men prioritize in a self serving manner just male interest and there is the influence of women too and what they want. But I agree that things changing where we have a prioritization of marriage over constant dating life, is going to involve both men and women doing that.
Again, not blaming men as the primary movers and shakers. But in all the "birth rate dropping, women should be having more babies" discussion I see, nobody is talking about the other side of the equation - the fathers of these babies. Women are not having babies for reasons of convenience, but so are men. If you want more marriage, stable marriage, and more babies, you need to sort out the culture and social values and that includes guys as well as dolls. Men also have expectations, standards, and conditioning from wider society around marriage and family (which culturally has shifted from "early marriage, be main breadwinner, have two to four kids" to "develop your career, enjoy yourself while still young, mature adulthood is put off until thirties, kids are an expensive drag which prevent you from spending your money on having fun and buying stuff").
But I did just talk about the other side of the equation too and even agreed with you on that. Why don't you just accept this and drop the idea that nobody is willing to talk about both men and women behaving in accordance to obligations that apply to both?
It isn't accurate that nobody is willing to do that, since that has has been part of this discussion. It is also true that I offered some things that apply more towards women, such as that their benefit from affirmative action depresses relationships
It doesn't seem like your insistence on promoting this narrative, changes even when people promote such things first, or agree with such points.
I agree again, and I also promoted the change of societal expectations and education and career first, for both men and women. It isn't true that the entire discussion is for men to have their cake and eat it too.
And of course, it is especially unreasonable to be blaming men in general for being the obstacle because they want to have their cake and eat it too.
I think we're in agreement more on social issues than we're disagreeing, I'm just saying that it wasn't women alone who decided they wanted this new state of affairs, men were happy for it too until they lost the former privileges and were living under the new dispensation. Now they're blaming women for it being all their fault as if no man ever went along with "wow, you mean the Pill means I can fuck women as much as I want and no babies and having to settle down and marry only one? sign me up!"
One the problems with you insisting with this unnecessary story that bitterly blames men is that you treat different generations as the same men. Another, is that there were other things bad towards men that men went along with due to feminist ideology, or browbeating. Certainly, complaints didn't start in the 2020s!
Again, to treat the entire discourse as blaming women alone, is inaccurate. Especially when feminist paradigm is definitely anti male, and at such, even those with an even handed response are going to be critical of that. You seem to be promoting a sex negative type of feminist narrative here.
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