domain:cafeamericainmag.com
faceh
2d ago
is it really that much of a dealbreaker?
If you want kids, its a concern.
ESPECIALLY if you want those kids to be raised to be healthy themselves.
Of course, Ozempic is giving us a chemical solution to all this.
And I am not asking for a rail thin girl, or a muscular one, or even one that goes to the gym regularly.
Just one that actually considers health important and takes necessary steps to maintain it.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
2d ago
You don't actually know how to "git gud".
Ah, but I never said I did! All I said was two simple words: "git gud". You see the difference, yes?
sun_the_second
could survive a COD lobby and a gay furry discord server
2d ago
If we as a culture openly and honestly told young women what men actually want
I was under the impression that we do, as a culture, openly and honestly tell young women what men actually want, and the problem was that it currently results in them spitting and going "fuck men then".
thejdizzler
2d ago
You are totally talking past what I wrote. The individual advice works, I don't disagree. All of these things will help find a romantic partner. The problem is it doesn't fix the larger issue of why these things have to be said in the first place: in the past 50-30 (but really the last 10), the whole landscape of dating and relationships has imploded. Self maxing isn't going to fix this.
Where do I refer to myself a single time in this post? I haven't had the most success with dating, but I'm not an incel. I've basically said in other posts that the most actionable things to do align with what this guy is saying (car, diet, not being a doormat). Me playing the system this way is not going to fix the fact that the system is broken.
As far as the last part goes, I could not disagree more strongly. Yes individuals did great things, but they were only able to do those things because of the presence of continually enforced social norms surrounding gender roles and expectations. The farmer and factory worker of the 1880s worked hard to provide for his family. We were able to win the civil war and the first and second world wars because we had competent social systems (at the family level and beyond) that have since vanished. Dating is only one part of this.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
2d ago
Some of them became single moms, some decided to get into deeper debt for a master's degree, some of them got fat.
Again with the fat, it's always the fat... is it really that much of a dealbreaker?
I think fat girls are sexy af, so I'm biased, and I'm aware my biases are not shared by everyone. But, it can't be that bad, right?
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
2d ago
Trump knows his audience better than most, but even he has trouble sometimes.
WhiningCoil
2d ago
Single, childless, drifting somewhat aimlessly, generally an emotional wreck on a daily basis. But what of it?
You don't actually know how to "git gud". You have zero proof that your diagnosis of the problem, nor the way out is correct. You should not be giving advice to anyone, nor judging anyone else for how they are handling it.
First you ascertain how gud the "git gudder" actually is, and then you have two options. If they're gud, then you say "well yeah, easy for you to say, you're already gud, and you probably got there by luck or natural talent anyway, so you don't know what it's like to suffer as someone who's not gud". If they're not gud, then you say "well what do you know anyway, you don't know anything about being gud, so just stay out of it."
Because you left out the 3rd option. If the people saying "git gud" is good, and has actionable advice, you actually do it. People are not limited to the cacophony of narcissistic rage.
You have neither.
Maybe the reason Trump doesn't understand why it keeps going is because he doesn't have an inferiority complex about class that drives him into fantasy about elite pedophile rings.
This is funny because Trump's own VP's explanation for birtherism (and I suppose it applies even more to the demands to see his university transcripts) was a class-driven inferiority complex.
So, at the very least, Trump should know his audience at this point.
faceh
2d ago
And, like the automobile market, the dating market has come to resemble a market for lemons.
You won't find out if the person you're dating has any disqualifying hidden flaws until you've already 'driven them off the lot,' so to speak.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
Ok, but on an individual level, don’t you want a solution that works for you, not someone to validate your feelings?
hydroacetylene
2d ago
‘Pass’ is a valid selection for the bottom x% of both sex, and it’s probably reasonable for women to be pickier- as they always have been. If your only options are bottom quartile men you’d probably pick staying single.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
2d ago
Single, childless, drifting somewhat aimlessly, generally an emotional wreck on a daily basis. But what of it?
You see, no one ever likes to be told to "git gud", so there's a readymade generic counterargument you can always deploy against any assertion of "git gud". I see this in lots of domains, not just dating, it happens all the time in competitive games for instance. First you ascertain how gud the "git gudder" actually is, and then you have two options. If they're gud, then you say "well yeah, easy for you to say, you're already gud, and you probably got there by luck or natural talent anyway, so you don't know what it's like to suffer as someone who's not gud". If they're not gud, then you say "well what do you know anyway, you don't know anything about being gud, so just stay out of it."
So you see, the gudness of the git gudder matters not, because people will always just reject the message anyway. But it matters not. "Git gud" always reigns supreme in the end, for it is the truth.
Obviously if someone is giving concrete step by step advice on how to do XYZ, then it's reasonable to ask for their credentials. But attitude and intent are freely available to all the fortunate and unfortunate alike. Avail yourself of them.
faceh
2d ago
And for damn near a year this was basically MANDATORY during Covid restriction times.
If you weren't meeting people in your online circles, you weren't meeting people.
kky
2d ago
Jesus, one of the things I hate about this discourse is that everyone just takes a half-baked detail and… runs with it.
Here’s the actual quote:
What is a good job? It’s a job that pays you enough to afford your own apartment, own a car (unless you live in a place like NYC or SF where it’s impractical), and pay for an adult lifestyle—probably $70K at the low end, depending on the city. If you can afford your own place, congrats, you’re an adult man...until you can do this, you’re a boy. Men, as a rule, don’t have roommates.
$70k is a location-specific estimate for a set of far more concrete guidelines. The guy is saying: you should own a car and pay for your own place. (Small note, IME the roommate thing is not a particular dealbreaker provided your roommate is cool and you have space which is obviously yours.)
He then benchmarks: in the average CITY, he reckons this at around $70k. (Again, IME this is a little conservative, a lot of second-tier cities will run you fine for $60k or less.) NB: cities are more expensive than the country.
OK, let’s drill down on his raw expectations. What percentage of Americans have cars? Over 90% of households, according to a quick Google search. Pretty attainable by that metric. How about the rough cost of renting a 1bed? Average of $1650, which if you follow the “1/3 of your paycheck” rule, is around $60k average, regardless of location - so the average American can rent a small apartment affordably. And in places where the pay is lower, the rent should be lower too, so this should be a large average of people who can live this way.
So our entire discussion got arbitrarily pegged to the $70k figure, plucked out of the context of WHY he thinks that, in an article that already assumes the context of by-college-educated, for-college-educated. I mean, for Chrissake, he barely gets across the page fold before linking out to his favorite books list. This guy’s a nerd! $70k is pretty damn attainable in his class - it just shows you’re at least trying!
So, reading his article, I can comfortably say that this is correct and attainable advice for any man in the larger class of college-educated, intelligent, but not a true natural with the ladies. If I’m being perfectly honest I’ve seen too many chicks spring for a fella who didn’t have what he’s slinging to take it too seriously; the big thing is actually just to interact with women regularly, turns out they go for whoever shows up! But working on yourself gives you some major advantages with women you’re meeting for the first time, so they want to interact with you a little more regularly. And having a car and your own place DEFINITELY lowers barriers to sex. The rest of this, the “systemic” talk - yeah, obviously things are happening on a larger scale, but come the fuck on man, why are you already talking about yourself like you’re a statistic? Don’t you have any self-respect? Or is it just other people you treat this way?
Flip it around. Here’s a strong pronouncement for you: the thing that let our society do great things in the past is the same one that let people get married, and it is PERSONAL initiative and responsibility, not collective. If someone has to be “empowered” to do something, what does that say about where the power really lies?
he heart and soul of the thing seems to be conspiracy beliefs.
The only reason Trump, the ridiculous candidate, became a political titan is because he alone was willing to take the side of the people who think the system is rigged, and they were willing to shoot him at "Killary" out of pure spite. The subsequent decade was only a confirmation of this dynamic. We've been living in the 2016 election since then.
Trump doing a heel turn into just another corrupt elite nullifies half of his appeal. All that remains is him being economically right wing.
fantasy
Where there is smoke, smoldering ruins and dozens of firefighters still shooting water, there's fire.
Before Trump himself started to act in this extremely and transparently suspicious manner I was under the impression that the Epstein case would ruin the lives of a few connected celebrities and rich donors and add one scandal to the CIA's list. Now I don't know what to believe.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
Did you know that if you get a giant hospital bill you can just negotiate it down by refusing to pay? I have relatives that have successfully done this- while also being people who pay sticker price with contractors and car dealers, it’s that easy.
Don’t worry so much about it.
ABigGuy4U
2d ago
Because it makes marriage look like it’s just a long-term form of prostitution. Which I guess for some people it basically is.
Goodguy
2d ago
There is a small but substantial fraction of Trump voters who are willing to break with him on foreign interventions and military support of foreign countries.
There is also a small but substantial fraction of Trump voters who are willing to break with him about carve-outs for immigration enforcement.
There is also a small but substantial fraction of Trump voters who are not into his approach on tariffs.
So it's not just conspiracy theories.
Eupraxia
Of all words spoken, all things read / most true was that which went unsaid
2d ago
It's the emphasis on "invasive species" that's the icky bit; I had a similar gut reaction. Yes, yes, 13/52 and all, but that particular phrasing hits different.
daguerrean
2d ago
because my partner and I are not particularly well-positioned to have biological children
If you are infertile that may be one thing, but I urge you not to adopt out of some sense of moral duty or ethics. Genetics are real and you will be scraping the bottom of the barrel genetically, you will destroy your own life.
erwgv3g34
2d ago
From Slate Star Scratchpad:
Public service announcement: if you have a kid with some kind of horrifying predatory criminal, and now your kid is a horrifying predatory criminal, and you have no idea how this happened because the father left before he was even born and your new husband is a great guy and you’ve both always done your best to raise your kid well and give him a good home, your kid’s psychiatrist will listen empathetically to your story, and then empathetically give you a copy of The Nurture Assumption.
…maybe not actually. But it will definitely be on his mind. And maybe it would get people to stop having so many kids with horrifying predatory criminals. Seriously, I’m doing inpatient child psychiatry now and I get multiple cases like this every day.
Other lessons from child psychiatry:
Don’t sexually molest your kids. I am so serious about this.
Did you know there are whole institutions for dealing with kids who sexually molest other kids? And these institutions are always full? The world is much worse than anybody thinks and I cannot finish up my child psychiatry rotation quickly enough.
Seriously, sometimes (and I don’t endorse this, and trigger warning this is horribly offensive) I feel like passing out bingo cards with every conceivable relative and every conceivable form of abuse. “Stepfather molests stepdaughter” would be the free space in the center. But we could also have “Father beats mother”, “Mother beats father”, “Parents beat kid”, “Kid beats parents”, “Brother molests sister”, “Sister stabs brother”, and so on. I’m not saying you would go through the day with one of these cards. That would be too easy. I’m saying you would have to try to get a bingo with a single patient.
Seriously, don’t have kids with horrifying predatory criminals. THIS NEVER HELPS.
The weirder the spelling of a traditional name (”Aireene”, “Maichel”) the longer the kid’s criminal record. This is true regardless of race.
The more kids you have by age 16, the more likely it is that each one of those kids will grow up to be a fine upstanding citizen who contributes many useful things to society. Or at least that had better be true, for all of our sakes.
The prevalence of ADHD in Our Lady Of An Undisclosed Location Child Psychiatry Unit is holding steady at 100%.
HAVE I MENTIONED NOT HAVING KIDS WITH HORRIFYING PREDATORY CRIMINALS? I FEEL LIKE THIS IS A SURPRISINGLY UNDEREXPLORED STRATEGY.
Another way to think about this is like filter bubbles. People are through the internet and digital media increasingly able to engage in only the activities they enjoy the most, with the people that enjoy them the most (just like with politics). It turns out that the sexes on average have different interests so now they don't meet organically.
The guys play video games and watch porn and the girls are on social media and read romantacy. Both want a partner but the meeting place activities have been outcompeted so they more rarely meet in social settings where forming a relationship is a possibility. Oops!
I want to know that society isn't going to collapse because nobody was willing to be a little mean to women, mostly.
After decades of giving women more and more benefits, why wouldn't the solution entail withdrawing some of them? And if we try that and it doesn't really help, at least we can say we tried.
Let it be known that I was expressing these same sorts of concerns back when I was with my Ex (I can drag up my posts on the Reddit Motte from like 5 years back to prove it), and I would still express these concerns if I got a new stable relationship.
I can see possible solutions to my personal problem, I sure do wish that certain other people would stop actively making it harder, though.
But I would really, REALLY like to avoid what seem to be eminently predictable outcomes of ignoring the larger issue.
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