JTarrou
20hr ago
Who gets to have land as a collective group? Who is taking land from whom exactly? Who does this west bank belong to? The Palestinian people as a national group? Arab people as an ethnic group? The PLO as a political organization? Jordan? Israel? Turkey?
What are the costs and benefits of sovereignty? Is equivocation between exactly who owns what and who is responsible for the armed forces operating there much of the issue?
JTarrou
4d ago
This is just "Republicans pounce", except men.
I can respect a congenitally disagreeable nuance bro, but that ends the minute they start complaining about the people signaling what they have jumped through so many hoops to countersignal.
JTarrou
4d ago
Staking out the moral high ground when that plot of land isn't in play is a cheap signal. I agree with you about the theoretical advantage of free speech maximalism. I also know that isn't an option in the current dispensation, or probably ever. If we're arguing black-box politics, you're absolutely right. If we're arguing real-world political coalitions in which one group has much more of a censorship apparatus than the other, and both are going ham with what they've got.....then free speech maximalism is just Lions fandom. The adulation of a losing team for the purpose of not having to pick between real contenders.
FWIW, I find myself working through a lot of my libertarian beliefs like this recently.
JTarrou
5d ago
The radical policy choice will be what religion of marauding barbarians your descendants choose to lose to. They'll have fixed the fertility issue, probably in the most straightforward manner.
Exactly. And the West Bank was Jordanian territory post-'47. The Palestinians are this weird UN-funded permanent hereditary refugee population that has never declared themselves a nation, has no unified government, cannot control the terrorist organizations outside the ones in leadership of territory given them by Israel, yet expects to be given more territory and the benefits of sovereignty while murdering and kidnapping civilians as their primary foreign policy tool.
More options
Context Copy link