aardvark2
7hr ago
Of course they did. I understand inserting Ukrainians into your previous comment is not central to your point, but inventing things that didn't happen is worrying. Deporting Ukrainians which numbered in tens on millions was a non-starter, even if Soviets wanted to do so, Koreans and Crimean Tatars were less populous.
USA imported black slaves to pick cotton, not needed anymore, and they are now a net drain. They are not "soon parted" but have privileged status.
aardvark2
14hr ago
that's where ISIS came from
ISIS is not an ethnoreligion. It came from former Iraqi army members who happened to be Sunni and saw Shia oppressing them.
aardvark2
2d ago
"beat them up so they would beg for peace" (with option: to show an example for all potential troublemakers) isn't exactly a peace position.
aardvark2
2d ago
Because the authors put major effort into it be usable by monkeys. Doing something productive (which we think education is for) is not that simple.
aardvark2
2d ago
Yes, occasionally the nomad horse-archers
Horse-archers aren't hunter-gatherers, they are herders, a much later thing that farmers. And they had wagons with spoked wheels, which is rocket science for any h-g
aardvark2
2d ago
Soviet deportations of Ukrainians
This is insane. Russia did bad thing in 2022, so we are now free to invent any events in the past.
aardvark2
5d ago
and sometimes athletically talented at least as much as they want them to be smart
A very large fraction of public is in denial of genes having substantial effect on intelligence with few exceptions.
and also IVF is not a majority of births
This might change if costs go down and accuracy of PGS up.
aardvark2
5d ago
We know how to avoid being overwhelmed by 65 IQ adults. In childhood you can ensure they don't suffer the worst poverty and go hungry and give them a K-6 education. Then they'll have 80-90 IQ.
This only works when the there's lots of >100 IQ people, 80 IQ are unable to support society which they need to be 80 IQ. So, we do not know to avoid overwhelmed by 65 IQ adults.
aardvark2
5d ago
People who hide posting history in profile, why? This is anyway visible to google, can be crawled etc.
aardvark2
5d ago
Hlynka didn't just violate rules on decorum (like, say, TrannyPorno did). He repeatedly dodged some arguments while claiming he didn't (e.g. McNamara morons) I asked him to give examples of people that he considers intelligent and of personality unattractive to him, he didn't
aardvark2
6d ago
Russia is not having, but they will if what you see as most desirable outcome happens.
I support ignorant war-mongers like you to go in trenches and fight.
aardvark2
6d ago
It looks like you're missed sliders1234's point "some multiple" (again: SOME MULTIPLE) which and that it's easier to recruit people for defensive war which would have offset Russia's population advantage.
aardvark2
6d ago
Current war strategy on both sides of attritional warfare probably costs another 200-400k Ukranian lives and some multiple of that in Russian lives.
"some multiple"? That's retarded. It's Ukraine not letting its men out and catching them on streets, not Russia. It's Ukraine who asked "all for all" POWs swap. Given how slow fronts are moving, losses are probably close to 1"1
In case "Russia backs down" you do not consider a number of deaths in civil war in Russia, just NATO shows and everything becomes good and sweet?
aardvark2
6d ago
I don't see what education in Nigeria has to do with the education of Nigerian Americans in the US.
Maybe I am wrong. I heard claim "Nigerian Americans are very educated" claim many times, and I always thought that it referred to 1st gen Nigerian Americans and majority of those got their higher education in Nigeria (I think that about 50% Nigerians obtaining higher education in Nigeria emigrate)
I think I have to repeat myself "While education is a proxy for IQ, it is a poor proxy in case when comparing between universities/degrees having different standards or affirmative action."
Meanwhile, your opinion on IQ for people in Ivory Coast is likely based on Flynn's paper which I point out has some issues to take into consideration.
No my opinion is not, I think 70 is close to phenotypic average SSA IQ and I consider that African Americans have somewhat similar genotypic IQ to Ivorians because most of their origin is from West Africa (maybe 5 points higher due to White admixture). If you don't like Flynn estimates, get better ones but do not shift into discussion how many degrees Nigerian Americans have (a highly selected group benefiting from race-based affirmative action).
that 70 IQ average value from the Ivory Coast is not equivalent to 70 IQ person in the US
If so (I am not saying it isn't), then you should drop "70 iq people are unemployable" alltogether.
but I have reasons to believe education does have an impact on IQ
Many people say this, but nearly all twins studies find impact of shared environment on adults low, less than 10%. Research of education>IQ is not stigmatized. Why didn't they come with some impressive results?
So would IQ decrease from FAS or cerebral palsy (phenotypic) have mostly no effect on whether the individual could function well in modern society?
This is the exception. Not everyone in Ivory Coast or other sub-saharan African country has FAS or cerebral palsy or other non-nutrition defective diseases driving the IQ down.
Why these are exceptions? They are just conditions with larger effects, there are many lesser conditions. If some condition drives phenotypic ability to perform well on IQ tests, why wouldn't it be drive their phenotypic ability to perform well on a job?
lower IQ than population average is often associated with personality deficits and mental disease, which average member of low IQ population does not have.
This personality IQ correlation is done in the US and thus it cannot be appropriately extrapolated to Africa. Unless you know any specific studies/research to suggest otherwise, I don't know any.
It looks to me, that I completely agreed with your point that "70 iq Ivorians not same as 70 iq Americans" and yet that you're thinking I am disagreeing and you do not like that I wrote something unflattering for SSA.
aardvark2
7d ago
Is it so hard to believe a self-selected group that is allowed to immigrate to the United States could just so happen to be more educated than the average US population?
No it's not.
They're getting their education in American Universities just like any other 2nd generation American migrant group.
They get education in USA universities, meaning they enjoy massive (de facto) SAT bonus in enrollment, mainly intended for AADOS. While education is a proxy for IQ, it is a poor proxy in case when comparing between universities/degrees having different standards or affirmative action.
Any argument or data point I bring up that might suggest the IQ of Africans could be higher you seem to challenge.
I agree that African countries IQ might went up by 10-15 points if they get higher standards of living.
I don't know how you can reject the notion that education has an impact on IQ
I am not sure whether education increases IQ scores or hidden things that we want to measure when we do IQ tests.
What's your angle here?
I'm just discussing what sprung from claim '70 iq not employable'. And what's your angle?
Do you genuinely believe if we take the average baby from the Ivory Coast and raise them in the US they're going to fail elementary school?
Did I say something which made think you so? If most US Blacks finish elementary school, why wouldn't I think average Ivorian immigrant wouldn't?
aardvark2
7d ago
I think if you take the supposed average 70 IQ person from the Ivory Coast and give them a Western country-level education, their IQ could still rise 10-15 points.
I was going to write just same 10-15 points, but then didn't because didn't see the point in the context. Also, this increase would require better medicine and food etc, not only better education. I didn't read the link beyond abstract, I think they're making typical sociologist's fallacy.
Fun fact, did you know Nigerian-Americans are one of the most educated groups of people in the United States?
I did. Nigeria certainly has much lower threshold for getting a university degree.
In terms of phenotypic vs genotypic IQ we don't know for sure but based on Gottfredson's description of IQ ability I'd say it applies mostly to genotypic IQ.
So would IQ decrease from FAS or cerebral palsy (phenotypic) have mostly no effect on whether individual could function well in modern society?
While I more agree with your argument than not, your argument is lacking something important.
Some points to consider: lower IQ than population average is often associated with personality deficits and mental disease, which average member of low IQ population does not have. There might a component to IQ results ("familiarity with IQ testing culture") which has very little effect on mundane tasks.
or primary school education in the Ivory Coast is incredibly simple relative to that of the US.
probably much simplier
aardvark2
8d ago
Read my next paragraph and read it in context of it being a response to 2rafa's post.
I did
I argue 70 IQ in Ivory coast != 70 IQ in the US
is your point that only genotypic IQ affects employability, but not phenotypic? or that non-IQ factors matter too, when your statement that 70 IQs not employable needs updating
High IQ people tend to not have kids anyways
this highly depends on society. Because genotypic IQ grew over time, this doesn't have to be
aardvark2
9d ago
Or to put it another way, if we take a baby born to the average person in the Ivory Coast and raise them in a Western nation with Western nutrition and education, would they on average have 70 IQ?
How is it relevant in the context?
To go back to my original point, a 100 iq racist arguing that an 85 iq population are 'animals' can construct a stronger argument than a 115 iq racist arguing that a 100 iq population are animals Both would be incorrect for reasons you already stated previously, but if they were trying to refine the definition of animal you get better arguments the lower the IQ goes.
agree! (and one of ways to present it might be to assign IQ values to animals.
Unless something like eugenics or gene editing becomes a reality I doubt the average level of intelligence will rise more than 5-10 IQ points for the developed nations.
How is it relevant in the context? The hypothetical is other society that is +2SD shifted to us.
and I'd like to point out Moore's law is no longer being met
I'm dreaming of seeing programmers having to actually optimize software! But I talked about older smartphones with 128 megabytes of RAM being nearly useless now. This is irrelevant if pace development stalls in near future.
Just as programmers constantly add more layers of indirection and shitty memory usage, the higher IQ society will invent more paperwork and qualifications even for simpler jobs.
aardvark2
12d ago
@2rafa at least gave an example of a 100iq person navigating Princeton or Jane Street. But in this case, the 100 IQ person can serve many functions in those places.
in part, because almost everyone 130 IQ has good knowledge what 100 IQ can do and can not, even if they live in a high-IQ bubble they have some average IQ relatives or exposure from media. If norm is 130, then 100 become scarce and weird.
Also, maybe a poor example, do you expect any modern use of smartphone with 64 megabytes of RAM?
If everyone gets 30 IQ bump, society would change barely recognizable. There would be quickly more robots doing many tasks. Rewind a few centuries to natural economy (how do we factor in Flynn effect?), most 70 IQ people worked in agriculture.
if atheticism is correlated with IQs, why correlation of IQ and male attractiveness as rated by women is ~0 ?
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