ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
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User ID: 626
That's not mockery on the "can't take this guy seriously level". Compare it to officer what's-his-name getting thrown around the room by Snoke, in front of his subordinates.
, I feel like that reading could only make sense if The Force Awakens by itself was a tolerably good film
Why?
You have two whole acts of the story to play with, characters that can fit into standard archetypes that you can develop as you please, a mysterious villain that you can take in any direction you want... Even if we accept that TFA is horrible beyond human comprehension, there is nothing in it that prevents the next episode from being good. This is in stark contrast to TLJ which does fuck everything up for anyone writing the final act.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
7hr ago
That is not the case in the ST. The sequels have devoted significant screen time to establishing that their villains are a clown show. Kylo Ren is an immature brat who establishes screen presence through mere physical violence - he's a thug, with none of Vader's presence. Hux is a resentful boob, seen quivering with impotent rage more than he is genuinely threatening people.
That was a choice made mostly in TLJ, they didn't have to set them up this way.
My sense is that Rian Johnson made an attempt to cook a meal with the ingredients he was given, and while the result was kind of crap, it was, given what he was working with, about as good as could have been expected.
Literally reversing the roles of Johnson and Abrams in what actually happened. TFA wasn't that good, but it wasn't bad either, they could have gone anywhere with it. The idea that TLJ was "as good as could have been expected, given what he was working with" is pure cope. If they handed it off to any decent manga / anime writer, Disney would probably have their cash cow that they could milk for another generation
It was The Rise Of Skywalker that was an attempt to cook given the ingredients. Yes, it sucked and no one sane will defend it, but it's a direct result of Johnson spending the entire second act wrecking what was set up in the first, and handing it back saying "ok, you can finish the story now".
Let's be so for real here though, the prequels were mid and only redeemed themselves way later on.
I mean, they didn't redeem themselves. Johnson and Abrams redeemed them.
and it would have been just as bad if TLJ had been better.
I don't know about that that. I think part Rise being so terrible was the scramble to finish the story from where TLJ left off. If they let Abrams do the whole thing, it would have been horrible slop, but it would be a bit more coherent.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
10hr ago
The Wachowskis were goaded into making another subpar action flick that could make Warner Brothers some money.
I'm willing to cut the Wachowskis some slack because, as far as I understood the situation, they didn't want to make the movie at all, knowing to leave well enough alone, but were given an ultimatum that if they don't, it will be handed to someone else. Under those circumstanfes it actually makes sense to blow the whole thing up, and unlike Johnson, it was actually their franchise to kill.
I don't even know about the "could make the studio some money" part. It didn't ane they did a damn good job of ensuring it turns out that way. It's a terrible Matrix film, but as a rant against Hollywood, it's was amusing to watch.
What are you talking about, there was hardly any ST to reinvent. Just tell a normal story and do it well, stop trying to be original and "subversive".
I brought up manga and anime because the Japanese got so good at getting people emotionally invested into characters and showing their development through a series of flashy fights, it's like they got it down to a science. Yeah, yeah, pseudointellectuals will complain about how derivative it all is and has nothing that deep to say, and I will remind them that we're talking about Star Wars. We're aiming for a not-that-deep but fun adventure that everyone can enjoy watching.
The whole problem with TLJ is that it did try to swerve course... onto wall. With what it did there was no way for part 3 to be anything other than a disaster, which was not the case after TFA.
There was nothing to rescue from post TFA. All the pieces are still on the board minus Han Solo, you can literally do whatever you want. After TLJ not only are Luke and Leia gone, so are the majoroty of the Republic forces, and so is Snoke. Ren was not main villain material and you don't have the time to develop him into one. What the hell were they supposed to do? I low-key hate Abrams, but it's ridiculous to put the blame on him.
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