ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
No bio...
User ID: 626
Non-woke took over X.
That was a bit of a fluke though. It wouldn't have happened if a mentally unstable billionaire didn't start musing about buying it, and porgressives haven't committed unforced error of actually compelling him through court to buy it, because they thought that will own him somehow.
I'm also anxious about how long it will last. The EU is constantly seething over it. Right now Musk is safe because he's in the US, but if the administration changes, they'll likely go after him, and could easily cause twitter to fall back to friendly hands again.
Woke also overreached on trans issues. Peak trans activism is over.
Sure, but "peak trans activism" was an absolute blitzkrieg, were they could roll into any institution unopposed. Now they're finally getting pushback, but that doesn't mean they lost.
This is something that drives me crazy about the discourse about wokeness. In the blitzkrieg era we were met with denials that anything is happening to begin with, "Woke/SJW is just a boogeyman", etc. They took over essentially every major institution during that time, and now that they stumbled and had to slow down somewhat, the same people who were denying their existence are now declaring the fight to be over.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
9hr ago
They don't feel like they seek out American influences.
But they won't deny or be bewildered by someone pointing out they are influenced by American culture. They'll nod along and probably say we should invest into local stuff so we're not relying on Americans so much. I've had exactly this conversation countless times.
You can't simply forcefully spread just anything. It has to fit into the framework of what the current generation was taught as children and young adults
You'd be surprised how much you can get away with. Whatever you're pushing through, most people won't hear about. Of the ones that do, the majority won't care. Of the ones that care, the majority will be afraid to say anything, because saying something will make them sound like AfD/Orban/Farage/Trump, and the ones that do say something can simply be fired and ostracized to serve as a warning for others.
Wokeness was laundered / whitewashed as just being a decent human being, and basically just 90s race blindness as the foot in the door, and once you pluck all the DEI/representation fruits from that
Even if we go with "race blindness was a pre-requisite for DEI", that just shows that these things have to be spread gradually, not that they can't be spread top-down.
What I'm trying to say is that it's a distributed system
This the part I'm denying. It's not. It's all spread top-down by governments, corporations, and NGOs, who regularly get together and discuss hiw to get around local popular pushback.
Like I said, European leftists believe wokeness will never became a thing in Europe, precisely because they were applying the kind of analysis you're doing here. They assumed spread is organic, and so no organic resonance anywhere around them, so they concluded it will not arrive in Europe anytime soon.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
9hr ago
I get the impression that most Republicans are stuck in a bubble where they don't pay attention to what rank and file Democrats actually do
BLM2 was in 2020 and there wasn't a single rank-and-file Democrat that opposed it. Every single Dem-sympathizing poster here expressed no objection to it, and the majority were outright sympathetic. Biden had age limits on gender reassignment procedures abolished. Then there's the question of if it even makes sense to judge thia by which politician gets elected. You can claim it was no specific politicians's fault that CRT got shoved into school curricula and mandatory corporate workshops, but that just shows your entire approach to this is flawed.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
Yeah, but that's why this one is a disaster. No one was too upset about the earlier engagement with Iran that supposedly obliterated their nuclear program, but here they've stepped in it, and it doesn't look like they have a plan to get out.
with food and gas and general prices increasing from war/tariffs/etc other choices, I'm not sure "no one cares"
"With crime increasing from rape/jaywalking/etc".
No one cares about tariffs or "corruption", but the war is a disaster.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
The choice put before the Ukrainians was tragic and I don't think a reasonable person can blame them for making the one they did, but the idea that the national suicide under the West is somehow less certain than under Putin is hard to substantiate in my opinion.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
Yup, I pretty much agree with this, as per my last paragraph.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
Okay. However, as I already noted, over 10% of Russia is Muslim. If 0.09% of Poland being Indian means it's over for Poland and they're going to be flooded with Indians, that should go a hundredfold for Russia and becoming Russian clay results in Ukraine being flooded with Muslims.
Russia is an empire """federation""" that includes Muslim provinces, so it's a bit different for them. They also aren't liberal, so they're allowed to take measures that will ensure the cohesion of Russian culture, and the culture of it's constituting provinces, or will promote some reasonable ethnogenesis. None of this is the case anywhere in NATO.
Though at the end of the day, I don't even know if I disagree with you about their long-term prospects, and wasn't making the argument that Ukraine would be better off as a part of Russia. I was pointing out that his portrayal of the West demanding a national suicide is correct.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
To a considerable extent, it is homegrown. BLM was run by people claiming to be "trained marxists". Social Justice draws heavily on the theory of Continental Philosophers, and the "Internationalist" faction in American politics has always looked up to Europe for inspiration and social proof of their ideological project.
Ok, sure I was being a bit reductive, and the whole thing was a bit of back-and-forth. You can even go further and point out that the specific people who kicked off the Social Justice movement in the US were airlifted out of Europe after the war. OTOH, Europeans could point out that we kept them locked up in their ivory towers, and they never amounted to much while they were under our custody. America truly turned out to be the land of opportunity, in a very ironic way. By the time these ideas made their way back to Europe, even the old-school Marxists cried out in horror.
Is the WEF an American or a European project? I would argue that assigning it to either is a category error, but if forced, I would say European
I agree, but even though there's overlap, the WEF is a different beast than the SocJus project. It's a totalitarian dictatorship wearing a smiley face mask, it doesn't get more European than that. SocJus is incidental to it, and they'll continue their project, even if it becomes completely discredited.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
It's like asking European Taylor Swift fans why they are obsessing over an American celebrity. It's just a bewildering question.
I disagree with this part. It's perfectly normal to bring up a question like that, and it's likely to produce ponderous murmurs about how we should invest more in our own, and not rely on Americans so much. It's not even limited to pop culture, you do this with literally anything, including industry and online platforms.
They just consume media, and they liked this celebrity and it's just very organic
And this as well. There was nothing organic about the spread of wokeness. Not in America, not in Europe. It relied on the suppression of opposing views on one hand, and it's own imposition through government institutions on the other, as well as entryism into critical private institutions.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
until it became an excuse for ignoring COVID lockdowns in summer 2020
And how is it, pray tell, that this particular protest, and not any other homegrown cause, if European liberals aren't adopting the worst parts of American culture?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
Are you from the US?
Nope, European through and through.
but Europeans still follow and consume American cultural products overwhelmingly, often more than domestic ones. European universities are eager to copy the American academic fads (coastal, blue tribe).
I agree with this, I think this is the mechanism for what I'm describing, but in my experience Europeans don't tend to admit there are American cultural trends that are worth following. It just happens, precisely because of the "fish in water" thing.
Because of this, I believe that if Tretiak asked "why are you adopting the worst parts of American culture" he'd just be met with bewildered denial that any part of American culture is being adopted.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
I don't understand the claim
The current amount of immigrants from other parts of the world is irrelevant to the claim about Poland being filled with Africans/South Asians, because that amount is changing. To confirm this, all you have to do is look at how demographic trends developed in other European countries. At one point they also had just a few percent of Africans / Asians / Muslims, and your exact argument was deployed in the exact same way you are doing here.
The word "deliberately" is especially puzzling in this case since these visas were apparently issued illegally as revealed by an internal investigation.
Not sure how that's relevant. The illegal immigrants that were let in under Biden were also illegal. They were still let in deliberately.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
This is exactly the same argument that was used in the western parts of Europe a few decades ago, a mere glance at them now clearly shows that, if anything, it's sophistry to deny Poland is being deliberately filled with foreigners.
Poland (also a nato puppet if there ever was one) is also filled with Africans?
South Asians, and at a somewhat slower pace than the wokest countries in NATO, but yes.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
Violation of their human rights to be sent to a potentially unsafe country.
I don't think this would apply to "half of the right" like he said.
The home countries may not want to receive them back
Afghanistan is willing, from what I understand.
assuming they didn't burn all identifying documents. Which they do.
There's always genetic analysis, I suppose.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
In practice yes, but they don't think there's a good kind of American, that they're imitating, even though they clearly are. That's the contradiction.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
But BLM itself kind of sees itself as going against "that kind of" America.
There isn't really a good kind of American to European libs, and BLM and all forms of wokeness was originally seen as weird and alien. There was even a common "it's just a couple of crazy kids on college campuses"-esque cope, that wokeness is just an American thing, and will never be relevant in Europe.
If they did believe that there's good Americans as well as bad, than the question would make some sense. They would recognize the parts of culture he's talking about as American, and as being imported, and they could justify it, but I'm pretty sure they ,think it's homegrown by now.
BLM in Europe is seen as a revolt against that racist America.
Nope, the criticism was also applied to European cultures, often in ways that make absolutely no sense. For example they apply anti-collonialist critique to Ireland, or try to claim that the descendants of Eastern European peasants, who just barely got out of communism, somehow inherited "white privilege".
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
but also from the other side by polluting stock image sites so badly that it’s becoming harder and harder to find suitable non-AI-slop images.
To be fair, stock images were AI-slop before there even was AI.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
If I ever meet my relatives over there I want to ask them why in the hell they seem so desperate to emulate the worst aspects of American society?
Let me know how it goes, but I doubt you'll get more than a bewildered look. European libs see themselves as entirely opposed to American culture, even as they make their way to a BLM march in a > 99% white country.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
but the French have a lot more tools to make their displeasure known.
If Britain didn't make their displeasure with France known, why would it go the other way around? If the French are so displeased, they can stop letting these people into France to begin with.
The public does want something done, but balks if it's visibly violent or leads to deaths. So 1 and 2 are out.
I'd like to see some evidence that this is an organic property of "the public", rather than a media environment imposed top-down. Again it would be a bit odd if their reaction to it would be greater than the reaction to the rape gang scandal.
how do you get them on the planes, how do you make the planes carry them
The same way you do with every deported individual.
and how do you make the destination let the planes land / take them off the planes?
In the case of Afghans, the Taliban is perfectly happy to take their people back, it's the western governments that don't want to do it.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
4d ago
Come on, you know it’s not that easy. I have no love for our current government but the Afghans are coming of their own accord.
They're coming "on their own accord" because they know they will be welcomed by the government.
The general public won’t stand for 1 and 2
If the general public can tolerate how the rape gangs were being handled, surely they can handle either of these two. At the very least it's worth a try.
the left and half the right won’t stand for 3
What's the logic here? Too expensive?
Also what happened to "send them back directly where they came from. Don't ask any questions, don't bother with process, just send them back"? There's no way a plane ticket costs more than these hotels.
No, somehow this one has not popped up on my feeds.
Not surprising, for my part I've seen an interview with a Ukrainian mother that moved to California because of the war, and had her daughter put into foster care and transed. Blue states are still full steam ahead with this stuff.
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