Botond173
2d ago
Sasha Grey is a Twitch streamer and does popular podcasts.
That's not much, if we're honest. Any young woman who's not hideously ugly can do a popular podcast and have beta simps orbiting her.
Mia Khalifa is an influencer dating a rapper.
From women's perspective, that doesn't mean shit.
Riley Reid is married to an athlete.
Fair enough; I don't know about his career so I can't comment. What I know is that he comes across as a miserable cuck in the one interview I saw with him. Again, my argument isn't that such women cannot marry, it's that they cannot marry a respectable man they're attracted to.
Botond173
2d ago
I agree that it’s defeated in the strict sense that the majority of self-identifying feminist women probably believe the Sexual Revolution had long-term negative consequences (but not net negative ones) for women and generally failed to deliver its promises. As far as I can tell, they also believe that toxic men in general and the still-existing vestiges of the patriarchy and its female useful idiots are responsible for such negative externalities. They aren’t questioning the goals and tenets of the revolution, only the consequences. As far as they’re concerned, the idea that promiscuous women should be able to live without sexual shame and that there’s no good reason to judge them is still legitimate. The idea that Bonnie Blue is doing something shameful does not enter their minds.
Guys I've worked with. To clarify, some of them do make money, but it's generally not a lot.
So I’m assuming your argument is that many of them have such a low social status as men and earn so little that many of them will never marry and never gain social standing and respect despite working hard. Fair enough. But there’s a difference between eroding your own chances of marriage and respectability in exchange for money as a woman with society’s tacit approval and being downtrodden as a man to such an extent that you’re effectively shut out of marriage and respectability.
have the publishers start scrubbing your scenes and/or stop republishing them
How? Why would they do that? You don't own the scenes.
Remove the makeup, change the hairstyle
Let's assume that you're a guy in high school whose mother "starred" in a bunch of porn flicks but generally remained obscure and only one or two of those flicks were ever digitized and uploaded online. All it takes for your social standing to be demolished by bullies is one asshole finding those flicks and identifying your mom.
Botond173
2d ago
Do the top 1% of blue-collar men have such complaints though? Because that'd be the valid parallel here.
Botond173
2d ago
Motivated reasoning and propagandistic considerations are also obviously at play but I think political sympathizers have an evident need for a narrative that is at least plausible to them and confirms their prejudices before they adopt it.
Botond173
4d ago
I'm not sure what is the problem here that you're positing an explanation for. Why assume that she makes that money because "society condones it"?
OP was asking wtf is going on with Bonnie Blue earning such amounts of money. I offered an explanation that I think is the most plausible. I'm assuming that anything that routinely happens in society without inviting widespread outrage and without getting banned/suppressed is by definition at least tacitly condoned by it.
Botond173
4d ago
They can buy mansions, hire maids, babysitters, tutors, and never work a single day in their lives after grinding OnlyFans for a few years.
I can't find the article but a fair few years ago there was an Instagram model owning the Red Pillers back when RooshV and all of that stuff was at a highpoint. She wrote, as I recall, explaining how she got invited to Dubai or somewhere similar. She sucked a few dicks, denigrated herself in front of some rich arabs, and a few weeks later she was out with enough money to last a lifetime. She detailed how she set up investments and savings accounts, she bought an apartment near a university where she would start studying and so on.
And you actually believe such claims??
There are plenty of pornstars that disappeared and their kids are growing up just fine since the old porn has been long buried with the new.
Yes, I concede that could plausibly have happened in the case of some women that are old hags at this point and have performed in films that were released on VHS and were later never digitized.
A lot of people today will never marry. A lot of peoples children will turn out to be screw-ups. A lot of people have no social standing, get no respect, and are at the end of whatever stick is being swung around. They, unlike Bonnie Blue, work very hard and still get no money.
Hold up. Who are you specifically referring to in this case? Average blue collar men?
Botond173
4d ago
@RandomRanger made the following observation last week:
Bonnie Blue is spreading her legs and makes around 800,000 pounds a month, in the UK of all places. UK Warehouse Worker earns 26,000 annually, UK Chief Information Security Officer earns 130,000-170,000 pounds. She's not even that hot, wtf is going on?
As this was posted in the context of Scott’s recent article on the Vibecession and I’d say that is an issue largely unrelated to the porn industry I decided to post a separate reply.
Assuming that 800,000 figure is correct in the first place (there’s probably room for doubt but that is beside the point) I think the simple explanation is that society generally condones or at least tolerates porn “actresses” making large amounts of money because people generally understand that such women are condemning themselves to social damnation with assumptions about their reputations that may very easily turn out to be naïve and thus deserve to be at least financially well-compensated by simps whom society considers to be loser chumps anyway.
Warehouse workers and information security officers have a certain level of respectable standing within their social circles. The likes of Bonnie Blue don’t. Women understand that she condemned herself to the equivalent of crack whore Hell. It’s very obvious that she’ll never find any sort of respectable job. She’ll never be a secretary, a nurse, a teacher, an HR manager, an accountant etc. She’ll very likely stay in the porn business or become a “sex worker” or be unemployed. Maybe she’ll become a porn director and people will pretend like she has talent for it. Either way, everybody knows she’ll age out rapidly. She’ll very probably never marry or if she does, it’ll be to a man who’s a laughingstock. She’ll never have children or if she does, they’ll turn out to be screw-ups. Society basically throws money at her because she was willing to turn into a social pariah without status for their amusement.
Now you might make the argument that she brought it all upon herself and thus should not be getting any sympathy and deserves poverty. But society doesn’t apply such norms to young women because they are seen as possessing innate biological value and also as naïve and easily misled. We’re aware that most young women who get drawn to porning probably don’t fully understand the long-term consequences of their actions, with the explanation being that they were fed modern feminism their entire lives and thus assume that women no longer live in sexual shame and that selling access to your orifices in camera is empowering. We’re also aware that this is a lie but modern feminism benefits well-off middle-class women so we’re not prepared to just jettison it for this reason.
Botond173
4d ago
A flat-screen TV that cost $5,000 in 2000 costs $300 today, and CPI calculations include this decline. But no lower-income family was buying $5,000 flat screens in 2000. Families in 2000 were buying the $300 small boxes.
Also you cannot try to save money by buying a small box today even if you wanted to, because it’d not even recognize the TV signal and would just be an unusable waste of space.
The amount of money a lower-income family spends on TV hasn't gone down, it's stayed flat. They may be getting better bang for their buck and that's significant.
I'd argue that its' not, not one bit. Back in 2000 nobody cared at all about not having a flat-screen TV for the simple reason that those were not available to average people in a practical sense. Nobody felt one bit poorer due to not owning one, the thought didn't even occur to anyone. The same goes for cell phones without cameras back in the old days. The notion of capturing videos with your phone and posting them online wasn't even on anyone's mind.
The cost of participating in a Middle Class Life has gone up - due to lots of things. High speed internet, computers, and phones are new entrants into "Bare Minimum to participate in the current economy."
I'd argue that lacking a smartphone with installed DM and e-mail apps and a PC/tablet basically locks you out of doing any job that is not undocumented fruit picking.
Botond173
4d ago
The Belgians, English, French, Dutch or Japanese very markedly are not practicing colonialism anymore and have been in fact doing the opposite (i.e. inviting foreigners instead of invading them) for decades; Israel, on the other hand, is. The different levels of vitriol are not difficult to explain. Also it’s very obviously not the ancient Jews as a people that leftists are accusing of colonialism but the current state of Israel as founded in 1947.
Botond173
7d ago
I'll offer my pet theory (if you can call it that) as an explanation.
For decades the social life of Western nations was broadly based on four basic assumptions.
#1 - If you bust your ass, study hard, live a dull and normie life and finish college, you'll find a job in the field you majored in reasonably fast
#2 - Credit is reasonably cheap; even if your earnings are crap and you have no accumulated wealth, you'll still be able to get a house/flat and a car
#3 - There's pretty much no inflation; even if your earnings are sort of crap and you're working a crummy dead-end job, at least your money isn't depreciating and you can plan and buy accordingly
#4 - Consumer goods will become cheaper and cheaper as globalization spreads and the entire world becomes ever more interconnected and tariffs gradually disappear; maybe you're not earning much but the electronics and whatnot that you want are reasonably cheap
Number 1 and 2 crumbled into dust after 2008. Number 3 and 4 did so as a result of COVID restrictions and the Ukrainian War. Now the precariat of the West is staring into the abyss bereft of any illusions, with the threat of a new great war on the horizon to boot.
Botond173
7d ago
Their anti-Israel tendency - more precisely, a tendency against the Israeli right-wing - derives solely from their overall anti-colonialist tendency. I think you already know that. France and Germany, for example, no longer follow a colonialist national policy, which is why you don't see anti-German or anti-French leftist groups of any significance. (We can nitpick about the former but it isn't really important.) The Russian leadership can reasonably be accused of being imperialists, however, which is why anti-Russian leftists are very much a thing.
Botond173
7d ago
Also, such leftist groups include Jews and never reject Jews based on their origin. The same cannot be said of unironic Jew haters.
Botond173
8d ago
Do you think this young man ever had the practical chance of having a normal, productive life in an alternate universe?
Botond173
8d ago
So…is it not the maximally uncharitable but nevertheless correct take on the entire education system that its sole relevant social role is to ensure that
- schoolchildren are put under official supervision during the day so that their parents won’t have to worry about them
- working-class children receive their minimal level of socialization in high school so that they form social circles and pair-bond after graduating
- middle-class and upper-class children form the necessary social networks in college that enable them to preserve their social status later in life and also preferably compel them to pair-bond after graduating
?
Botond173
10d ago
We're at a point where you can be incredibly based without even being coarse. Such as: "My daughter has Down syndrome and yet I can attest that even her would not permit Somalis to settle in her state".
Botond173
10d ago
I know it's a lazy question but how normal was it on average before Dobbs to abort fetuses with Down's in the US?
As many of you are probably aware, there’s this popular theory among normie and normie-adjacent white liberals in the US and the West in general that Charlie Kirk’s assassin is a so-called groyper i.e. dissident rightist, racist etc. follower of Nick Fuentes. I was wondering if the main reason for this belief is that said liberals are fully aware of the level of infighting and factionalism that characterizes the Left and then go on to thoughtlessly assume that the situation must be the same on the Right because they actually have only scarce knowledge about it.
Botond173
11d ago
"naw actually women are thots who adore, indeed insist upon, getting pumped ASAP by otherwise-indifferent guys"
Hold up. OP's claim was actually this: "Trying to take it slow as the man is interpreted by the majority of women as a lack of genuine interest."
Botond173
15d ago
There was also a rather simple factor at play in all of this. We know there was a big baby boom after 1945. In plain terms, every year that passed, the cohort that was born was larger than the one before it. Add to this that young men generally seek female partners that are 3-5 years younger than them. All this meant that there were roughly 13 or so potential mates for every 10 young men looking for a female partner in 1966 or so. A sex ratio that is imbalanced to such a degree inevitably results in loosened norms around casual sex even if that is not clearly incentivized by the broader culture, which it was.
Botond173
16d ago
Anybody else remember the foofarah around Purity Rings and Purity Balls and the rest of it?
I do. It did reek of Evangelical desperation to me, and very obviously seemed cringey. On a second though I think you're right about the Duluth Model in the sense that I do believe it's a sexual Marxist concept designed to benefit the oppressed class of women but I don't think it was meant to somehow compel men to claim responsibility for women. I should not have included it.
Botond173
16d ago
Not to nitpick but I guess Boomers started retiring as early as 2010 or so. I'd also argue that any massive immigration wave surely erodes the birth rate of the native population even further, as it drives societal angst, uncertainty and fear, while also driving up house prices on average.
I highly the doubt that prostitution being low status is a consequence of it being illegal. I'd say it's considered low status because it means ugly old men get to use your holes for money. In Germany, for example, it's legal but apparently also generates a great deal of human trafficking from Eastern Europe as there's a dearth of German women signing up to be whores.
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