Eetan
11d ago
Time for some positive culture news, free of gloom, doom and blackpill. Are there any?
Yes. The Vesuvius project to digitally decipher ancient scrolls from Herculaneum - discussed here previously - yielded first fruits.
First rather badly mangled scroll read.
It seems to be not Epicurean, as expected, but Stoic philosophical work.
PHerc. 1667 is what survives of a larger roll: earlier attempts to open it by hand — in the nineteenth century, and again in 1969 and the 1980s — destroyed its outer layers and left only the compact inner core, about 8 cm of an original height of 19–24 cm. From that surviving portion we have now recovered and read the text in full — the lower parts of some twenty-two columns, transcribed and reviewed by papyrologists. It is the first time the preserved text of a rolled Herculaneum scroll has been read continuously, end to end, rather than in isolated words or patches.
The recovered text is a philosophical treatise on ethics, and the evidence points to a Stoic work: it turns on human nature, impulse, and the moral progress of human beings, and its final preserved column names Aristocreon — nephew and disciple of the great Stoic Chrysippus — which, together with the language and themes of the text, places it in a Stoic context and dates it to the 2nd century BC.
What it means? It means fears that the recovered heap of scrolls is remnant of purely Epicurean collection were overblown, that the library was general philosophical library and we can expect works of all ancient philosophical schools - those known whose works survives, those known only by name and those completely forgotten.
Remember, the villa - nothing fancy like Nero's house, just average dwelling of top 1% of top 1% of Roman Empire - was expected to contain just as basic barebone fixtures, among masterpieces of sculpture, painting and other arts, two complete libraries (one Greek, one Latin). There is chance that they are still there and were properly carbonized to withstand millenia.
(to excavate the whole site properly would mean to demolish modern town of Ercolano, but this is problem solvable by modern billionaire emptying his pockets for spare change)
Time for degenerate moderns to shut up and listen to the ancients.
Remember, mechanical arts might be nice, but are lacking something.
… being practical wisdom about that, is also about this. This [person? aspect?] that concerns the mechanical arts seems to me to be very distant from such a [conception?], and to have the technical fulfilment that is, so to speak, lame and something of such type lacking, and in regard to the …
Eetan
11d ago
I did my Mormon mission in the Czech Republic. The Czechs have been in a fierce competition with the Estonians for a few decades over who can be the most atheist country in the world. Estonia appears to have a slight edge in the competition. Estimates range from approximately 1/2 to about 2/3 of either country being atheists.
Having talked to an extremely high number of (ostensibly atheist) Czechs about religion, I learned something important: being nominally atheist often doesn't mean believing in strict adherence to rationalism, the scientific method, etc. as a source of knowledge. I'd estimate that the overwhelming majority of "atheist" Czechs believed in what could loosely be called "new age gibberish" or "woo".
Well, Czechia is not paradise on Earth, but according to most official statistical metrics and impressions of visitors and expats it is one of the best countries of the world. Including homicide and general crime rate.
This example alone rather disproves common religious argument that without faith there is no morality.
For example, here is local crime blotter - use autotranslator and see that most newsworthy habbenings from 10M country are traffic accidents and low rent scams and thefts. No deluge of grisly murders and gang violence, as you would expect from similar sized highly religious US state or city.
Driver ends up with car flipped on its side in Prague, passenger injured
He hit a cyclist on the sidewalk and drove away. A young driver in the Frýdek-Místek region breathed in alcohol, the man died
After crashing into a tree in the Vsetín region, he left the crew to die and fled. The driver faces up to sixteen years in prison
He claimed to be a doctor and an American soldier. A woman in love from South Bohemia lost a million
He broke into seven apartments and tried in vain to open four more. The man from Pilsen was caught by the police after weeks of searching.
Yes, the birth rate is low, but this is the case for all developed countries. Generally, it is unclear how would Czechs benefit from conversion to Mormonism and giving up alcohol, including beer.
Eetan
14d ago
Sounds like a better plan
You want better plan how to raise birth rate?
There is no need to reinvent the wheel, it was perfected long ago by Amish, Mennonites, Orthodox Jews and similar insular groups defying the modernity, groups found in rather unexpected places.
The plan includes early marriage, but it absolutely does not include anime, and all known examples require supernatural beliefs and practices.
Benefits of such life summarized here.
Unlike membership in an outlaw motorcycle club, being part of normal Haredi society brings benefits beyond a meth habit, jailtime and dental issues. For instance, if you minimally have your stuff together, you’re guaranteed gainful employment or a sinecure. Unless you have severe physical or mental issues, you’re gonna get married off to someone with whom you are basically compatible.
You’re going to live in a place with very low crime. When you have many kids-!כן ירבו-they’ll grow up in a place that’s full of kids, where kids and their behavior are normal and expected, not a bizarre imposition. You can have a high expectation of seeing those kids grow up to follow in your footsteps, to aspire to live as you lived in the ways that both you and them see as important, to marry early and have lots of children.
You will not be lonely, uninvited to the party, because the parties are all simchas-kiddush, weddings, engagements, circumcisions-to which everyone is invited, and they happen constantly.
(well, this part would be seen by many not as paradise, but hell on earth)
You will always be in places where you belong. When you die, you will be buried and mourned by your children, nephews grandchildren, greatgrandchildren, instead of by a dwindling and sad bunch of your equally old siblings and cousins.
Because your community is ruled hierarchically, has a high median IQ and pools its resources towards explicitly defined and concrete political goals, you can punch way above your weight in politics, ranging from primitive block voting and mass protests to filling important positions with your members who are actually qualified to fill them instead of being Somali congressional diversity hires or whatever. All of this leads to political success (until Tucker gets his Harbor Freight pitchforks and torches shipment delivered.) The spoils of this success are distributed to the community.
Here is the sales pitch, the benefits. The drawbacks: you have to follow all your life lots of very detailed rules, and live in equivalent of cosplay, including costume designed to look maximally ridiculous to outsiders.
Is it price worth paying? It is up to you.
Eetan
14d ago
So I have to wonder is this a sub-theme that Houellebecq intends? Is he comparing Catholicism in 19th century France to Islam in his invented 20th century France?
We now know that 20th century hadn't turned to be Catholic, despite flashy conversions of many artistic and intellectual types.
In this analogy, Islamic threat will also ultimately turn to be one big nothingburger. Doubt that Houellebecq wants to make this analogy.
Eetan
15d ago
Well I disagree with your point because people who matter do. Russian elite is supposedly hiring Mandarin-speaking nannies for their children. American elite – Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Trumps – do the same. Some random Africans do.
Whether they do, and on what scale, is not too relevant - remember that the civilized world of antiquity continued to speak Greek while being under Roman Empire. The Romans forced their language only on barbarians of the West, never ever thought to do it in the East (the famous scene from Life of Brian is fictional, real historical Eastern natives and Roman legionaires would be speaking Greek and understanding each other rather well).
Eetan
15d ago
Time for another news from the original culture war, the religious war. The affair might seem weird and obscure to normies, even well learned and informed normies, but might well turn to be of more importance than any other current habbenings.
The long awaited event, unauthorized conscecration of new bishops by Society of Saint Pius X finally happened, despite papal final warning.
And so did the inevitable response.
Yes, the big holy hammer fell as expected, the most trad catholics that ever tradded are catholic no more. Not only the leadership, but the lay followers too.
No surprise, there are few red lines remaining in today's catholic church, but unauthorized ordination of bishops without papal approval is one of them, and had always been so.
The church always wanted to prevent proliferation of vagrant priests and hobo bishops with no official position just wandering around the countryside and making trouble.
See Code of Canon Law, article 1387
Analogy from the secular world: Imagine army general one day walks into military base, meets private Billy Bob, is impressed and promotes him on the spot. "Billy Bob, you are now general too!"
You would not expect the general getting away with this in any organized military force of the world.
Where is no analogy with secular world is that the ordinations are illicit but valid.
The four new bishops are bishops, with all spiritual powers of bishops, and no one can take them away. They can do anything that bishop can do, including making more bishops, nothing can stop them.
This event can end with reconciliation like the first illicit consecrations in 1988, but this can also be beginning of full counter church arising from SSPX.
There were attempts in modern time, all flopped, even the most successful true trad church is not so important in grand scale of things. But the Vatican has still good reasons to be worried.
Eetan
16d ago
I am not obligated to endorse some sort of one world government, and I am certainly not obligated to endorse open borders.
The early church endorsed one world government when they were living under it. Were they wrong?
Had any early church father called to dissolve the Roman Empire into separate provinces (and to split Latin language into dozens of mutually incomprehensible dialects) as something more pleasing to God?
Eetan
16d ago
It can be both, of course. Babel is the divine frustration of a human-willed plan, which is therefore experienced as tragic, even if the scattering was intended all along.
In this story, creation of different languages is explicitly described as divine punishment, not blessing (as was famine and plague in other biblical stories).
This does not stop mainstream Christianity from embracing and encouraging fighting against hunger and plague.
Why should be language diversity any different. Had any notable theologian ever condemned learning and teaching foreign languages as sinful attempt to thwart God's will?
Eetan
16d ago
Yes, expert can always know better than the person themselves, expert can always psychoanalyse you and discover that your deepest held beliefs and values are result of trauma caused by absent father and overbearing mother (or vice versa). It is guaranteed to work on anyone with any beliefs and values at all.
Eetan
16d ago
I'd argue the reason why many young Americans become rabid leftists
Instead of speculating, just ask them: "What radicalized you?"
Rabid political activist are absolutely eager and willing to share their origin story, many such confessions are easily found online.
Eetan
16d ago
If that were true, in countries with free or near-free higher education and/or with nationalized healthcare the youth would be significantly less leftist than in America.
Let's turn this question around.
Look at countries where the youff is "significantly less leftist" than in America. By whatever definition of non-left you want - less LGBTQ+? more religious? more nationalist? more pro free market?
Do these countries have super expensive education and health care, or is this all non relevant to the question, and "left" or "right" orientation comes from somewhere else?
Eetan
16d ago
I'm not sure to whom you are referring by this.
We are clearly talking about online Warhammer Catholics, who really want to believe that racism and bigotry are compatible with teachings of the church, while the modern church as a whole rather strongly disagrees.
Yes, Mr. Morlock is professing Catholic who for some reason was not listening to his well trained priest when he was explaining to him that racism is wrong.
Eetan
16d ago
Because they believe that the teachings of the Catholic Church are true. What other reason would they need?
While they simultaneously believe that the whole church, including the hierarchy and Pope, got these teachings wrong. Not an enviable position.
Eetan
18d ago
Some people want to kick Chevalier out of the party, bless their hearts. This wouldn't work even if it were feasable. Democrats need votes from leftists to be competative nationally. A party at war with its own base cannot stand.
It's rather worse.
Leftists (defined as people sharing these views or sympathetic to them) are small minority of the population, but they form large part of D activists and organizer cadres, the party officers and NCO's who make the party actually work on the ground.
The party needs 1937 style purge, but such operation needs Georgian genius. Watch for new man/woman/nonbinary person coming from Atlanta.
Eetan
18d ago
It's something Christians (and Jews) developed to be able to live alongside one another, but it was never meant to be applied to Islam.
Correction: idea of religious tolerance was something Protestants developed to be able to live alongside one another, but it was obviously never meant to be applied to papists. (Jewish question was at the time and place very little issue)
Eetan
18d ago
In fact, Wikipedia is pretty consistent on this.
No, it isn't.
For example, Bill de Blasio is not entitled to the same courtesy, even when he was born as Warren Wilhelm he was not yet notable.
No one is worried that Bill might see his article, and become very sad when he is reminded of his dead name.
Bill de Blasio[a] (born Warren Wilhelm Jr., May 8, 1961) is an American former politician who served as the 110th mayor of New York City from 2014 to 2021. A member of the Democratic Party, he held the office of New York City Public Advocate from 2010 to 2013.
For another less notable but still Wiki notable case, wish of recently deceased Nicholas Alahverdian to be exclusively known as Arthur Knight is not respected too.
Nicholas Alahverdian (July 11, 1987 – June 25, 2026),[6][7][8] also known as Nicholas Rossi and Arthur Knight, among other aliases,[5] was an American sex offender and child welfare activist who faked his own death in 2020.
Eetan
18d ago
By way of analogy, imagine instead that Alice is a devout Catholic and Bob is a devout Protestant.
We are not talking about personal etiquette in office or neighborhood, we are talking about official policy of world's encyclopedia of record.
Rather different things.
Imagine Encyclopedia Britannica had a rule to never ever mention that notable persons known for their Catholicism were ever in their life adherents of different religion. (in description of people of other religions or non religion, no such rule applies).
Wouldn't you find it a little strange, wouldn't this make you worry that famous objectivity and impartiality of Britannica might be compromised?
I know "gay ideology" is too narrow, but "anti-natalist" isn't complete either. They're just one strain of a broader selfish ideology.
Childfree and antinatalist movements are two distinct things with very different vibes.
Childfree are proudly selfish folks, while antinatalists are self sacrificing Boddhisatvas, staying in this hellworld of pain and misery in order to preach their message and prevent future sentient being to be born and suffer.
One is mega consumerist lifestyle pushed Up To Eleven, problematic not only due to maximal carbon footprint while the other is rather more disturbing - well, would be if it was less cringe.
Anyway, the pro natalist movement one upped and overcame anti natalists in cringiness long ago.
Typical natalist discourse now looks like this:
ANTINATALIST: Life is pain and suffering, the best fate is to be never born, but only one out of million could get so lucky. Sad!
PRONATALIST: Yea, life is suffering and this gives it meaning, suffering is awesome! Think about thousands of generations of your ancestors who suffered horribly, so you could be born and suffer too! Be thankful for the gift of suffering and pass it to future generations, you do not want your ancestor's sacrifice be in vain!
edit: links uplinked
Eetan
19d ago
Maybe it is misremembering of very real stories of cops going house to house to seize guns (in totally unlawful and unconstitutional way) and American gun owners obeying.
It was rather sordid and blackpilling episode, like the whole Katrina story, and it is understandable no one wants to be reminded of it.
Eetan
19d ago
You can half-portray the past as it actually was, but only if it's a road-not-taken alternate history where the hero wishes he could turn the world into 1990s America.
This is inescapable if you want to create art with mainstream appeal.
Historically accurate ancient or medieval movie, accurate not only in architecture, clothing, weapons and gear, but in beliefs, attitudes and behavior of characters, would be unwatchable and utterly repellent to normie public. Seeing hero of the story looting and pillaging the countryside, sacking towns, massacring POW's and burning heretics alive with clear conscience will be too much for modern audience.
Face it: the past is different country, and it is, to use presidential term, the worst imaginable third world shithole country.
Eetan
19d ago
You've got this very old-fashioned text, which probably began as some sort of oral history, only later written down by various different people at different times.
That's the point. Are you going to teach the Bible as ancient book written by ancient Near Easterners for ancient Near Easterners, or as infallible guide for all men of all times and places? Even if you mandate one, how you are going to monitor the teachers to do not thwart it into the other?
Eetan
19d ago
In your opinion, is this "dickish" behaviour?
It is smart way to discredit him in the eyes of his fans - double barrelled hyphenated name is very posh and (Norman) elite coded, not well fitting to champion of common Englishman born on common English street.
It ain't working well, but it is the best they have.
Eetan
20d ago
The analogy is that if you are known as prepper, when SHTF your hoarded supplies become number one target in your neighborhood. You have guns? Well, your desperate neighbors have guns too and nothing to lose.
This is why OPSEC is the most crucial element of survival success in such situations.
Eetan
20d ago
However, Wikipedia only has one article on Alice Famousperson; it cannot simultaneously adhere to both trans-accepting and trans-rejecting standards. It cannot both include and exclude the fact that, prior to her transition, prior to anyone having heard of her, she was called Bob Nobody.
Just use ordinary standards for name changes.
Many Wiki-notable people both historical and current were changing their names and using pseudonyms during their lives, and Wiki policy deals with it.
For example, Henry McCarty, deadname of William H. Bonney, better known as Billy the Kid appears in his page.
Excepting name changes for gender identity reasons.
Why? Would Billy the Kid suffer less pain and anguish if someone reminded him of his unglamorous Irish origins?
Survival of ancient philosophical works was not on the principle "the best of the best", but rather random chance, heavily weighted by Christian principles.
Plato, Aristotle and (some of) Stoics were found to be compatible with Bible, Epicureans absolutely not (not to speak about other schools of philosophy that had to exist, but were forgotten so completely that not even names and quotes remain).
It would be interesting to find out what lost ancient thinkers really were about, and even more interesting to find out whether their ideas were independently reinvented by modern thinkers who couldn't know about them.
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