Felagund
7d ago
Then it's in your interest to estimate the probability space and act accordingly. Not to assume everything magically cancels.
Throwing up your hands and doing nothing is lazy and irresponsible, considering the stakes.
Pascal was quite right to criticize this attitude of carelessness or dismissal in Pensées 195:
Before entering into the proofs of the Christian religion, I find it necessary to point out the sinfulness of those men who live in indifference to the search for truth in a matter which is so important to them, and which touches them so nearly.
Of all their errors, this doubtless is the one which most convicts them of foolishness and blindness, and in which it is easiest to confound them by the first glimmerings of common sense, and by natural feelings.
For it is not to be doubted that the duration of this life is but a moment; that the state of death is eternal, whatever may be its nature; and that thus all our actions and thoughts must take such different directions according to the state of that eternity, that it is impossible to take one step with sense and judgment, unless we regulate our course by the truth of that point which ought to be our ultimate end.
There is nothing clearer than this; and thus, according to the principles of reason, the conduct of men is wholly unreasonable, if they do not take another course.
On this point, therefore, we condemn those who live without thought of the ultimate end of life, who let themselves be guided by their own inclinations and their own pleasures without reflection and without concern, and, as if they could annihilate eternity by turning away their thought from it, think only of making themselves happy for the moment.
Yet this eternity exists, and death, which must open into it, and threatens them every hour, must in a little time infallibly put them under the dreadful necessity of being either annihilated or unhappy for ever, without knowing which of these eternities is for ever prepared for them.
This is a doubt of terrible consequence. They are in peril of eternal woe; and thereupon, as if the matter were not worth the trouble, they neglect to inquire whether this is one of those opinions which people receive with too credulous a facility, or one of those which, obscure in themselves, have a very firm, though hidden, foundation. Thus they know not whether there be truth or falsity in the matter, nor whether there be strength or weakness in the proofs. They have them before their eyes; they refuse to look at them; and in that ignorance they choose all that is necessary to fall into this misfortune if it exists, to await death to make trial of it, yet to be very content in this state, to make profession of it, and indeed to boast of it. Can we think seriously on the importance of this subject without being horrified at conduct so extravagant?
This resting in ignorance is a monstrous thing, and they who pass their life in it must be made to feel its extravagance and stupidity, by having it shown to them, so that they may be confounded by the sight of their folly. For this is how men reason, when they choose to live in such ignorance of what they are, and without seeking enlightenment. "I know not," they say ..."
Felagund
8d ago
It sounds like he trusted people in the 90s whom he no longer trusts, which was also part of why he dismissed Christianity. If the 'experts' were clearly wrong about other things societally, then why could they not also have been wrong about Christianity? Hence an increased openness.
Felagund
8d ago
See, I really don't like how exclusionary the Eastern Orthodox tend to be. Why not recognize Christ's body throughout the world, even as it's racked by various grevious schisms? Why worsen them? At least the Roman Catholics are sort of willing to recognize the other church bodies, especially post Vatican II. And the ecclesiology seems kind of broken with the way that schisms happen—e.g. was the entire East not part of the church for taking the wrong side during the Acacian schism? And then just became, at once, the church again when they reconciled? And, like, then you have to disclaim the Church of the East evangelizing China in the first millenium just because they didn't follow Ephesus.
I'm quite happy over here with my Protestantism that's willing to recognize the entire community of the faithful, regardless of nation, as assemblies of my brothers in Christ, and parts of his single visible church.
Felagund
8d ago
Well, then look for options that don't require belief, and do those?
Or at least be researching the options extremely diligently on the off chance that one of them is true and you're convinced or God directly causes faith in you (for the positions that believe that happens) or something.
Any of these paths seem obviously to dominate over uncaring atheism.
Felagund
8d ago
Wait, where was Q condemned? What are the range of views that people take on the synoptic problem, then? Do people tend to hold to Matthaean priority, instead of the more common Marcan priority?
Felagund
8d ago
And where did those European traditions come from? If the game here is simply to trace back as far as we can, then we should look at the first man. What did he believe?
I would suggest that he walked in the garden with the LORD, sinned and was expelled, and fathered us all.
Since you're choosing to believe, why not retvrn a little farther and believe in your culture's traditional religions?
Do you really think that your culture is the same as that of pre-Christian Europe (assuming that's your heritage)? No, not at all. The Europeans nations have been Christian for 1500 years, plus or minus a couple hundred, depending on the place. The cultures that we have been in, or that we were in at all recently, have been thoroughly steeped in Christianity. Those pagan men of 2000 years ago may have been your ancestors, but they were not really a part of your culture, your nation.
No, no, the place to return, at least, for the American (if it is returning to our roots that we are doing), is to traditional American mainline Protestantism, the religion of sober, hardworking men with large families clamoring after divine truth and a pious life. The old denominations have been captured by lefties, but there exist remnants to be found.
Felagund
8d ago
Well, not quite unfalsifiable. Proving a contradiction would falsify. And, of course, at the last day.
Felagund
8d ago
And Christians consider pagan "gods" to be very different from the true God, in that they are creatures acting only due to God's (temporary) self-restraint vs. being the creator of everything and ground of existence itself.
Felagund
8d ago
Thanks for bringing this back! I think this last happened when it was on reddit and I was only a lurker (still have no reddit account).
Felagund
8d ago
The first one was the spatial one, right? I found that one to be a breeze (well, it took some focus to hold everything in my head, but I was nearly always confident that I got everything right), but was really struggling the whole time for the icon recognition one. Interesting that we disagree there, rather than the same things being harder/easier for everyone.
Felagund
8d ago
Oh, absolutely. I also have the same tendency to focus too much on the latter things. I was reading Richard Baxter (a moderate and controversial puritan) two days ago, and found the next three or four pages after where it says section 3 to be pretty convicting. It's okay to be motivated to know about God and to defend his truth, but those shouldn't be the only things.
"I have ever observed that a violent passion called Zeal for a mans opinions, which he counts Orthodox, is so easie and natural, that there needs little means to kindle it: Nay, all the means that can be used will scarce allay the inordinate rage of it: But a Zealous love of God, and delight in him, and a Zeal in him for holiness, and against sin, and a Zealous love to Gods Truth as they hold forth Christ and Glory, and guide us to duty, this is so contrary to the nature of man, that no means is sufficient to excite it. O how easily without Grace, and against Grace do Carnal Ministers, and professors make a huge bussel in the world for their opinions, compassing Sea and Land to make a Proselite!"
And I'll cut the quote off there, even though it continues on with similar force. Do read the whole passage, it's not that long.
Felagund
8d ago
I'd recommend historic protestantism. So neither modern evangelicalism, nor the woke mainlines. If you DM me your area, I could probably find some churches that have a reasonable chance of being good.
Felagund
8d ago
Okay, @hydroacetylene, who's going to become the next pope?
Felagund
8d ago
Huh, odd, the percentiles seemed fine for me as compared with standardized tests like the SAT, and you're one of the people on this board who feel a bit smarter than me.
Felagund
11d ago
Full: 149
Memory: 143. I was way better at the patterns than the icons. (VM: 84/85. EM: 18/26)
Verbal: 149. Probably could have gotten a touch more if I were more strategic on the vocabulary. (V:31/34) (A:23/27)
Sptaial: 144 (MR:17/17) (CP:15/18)
Felagund
15d ago
Yeah, if they believe in papal authority, it would follow that they have to believe and do all the rest.
Felagund
15d ago
I find myself drawn to high church Protestantism
Nice! What sort of church do you attend?
(I'm Presbyterian/Reformed.)
Felagund
28d ago
I'm not satisfied with them leaving, unless to Namibia or something. That would be the death of the Afrikaner people. And really—how many peoples are there left upon the face of the earth who are better than they?
I'd be happier to see a stronger push for separatism, whether that be cape independence, or an Orania-style volkstaat. But any effort will be hard to win people over and coordinate and maybe slow. I don't know how much time is left. It helps, surely, that the private security outnumbers the military, and just the sheer size of the country. And the Solidariteit movement is good. Any victory will have to come through institutions that are not the government. But the white population is just so spread out that it makes it hard to do things.
@hydroacetylene—if you have insider knowledge, could you make some money here? (if that would be ethical)
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