HB_BENTWORTH
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User ID: 1359
HB_BENTWORTH
22d ago
I read NKB's take to be more on the nature of the criticism. Hepler is a writer so probably doesn't need to play videogames to do her job (seems her thing was more TTRPG's). Calling her "Hamburger Helper", though I laughed when I first heard it, isn't helpful. The reddit post about Pagliarulo was actually unhinged and completely hyperbolic, but people bought it anyways because most probably didn't watch the video.
Zoe getting caught lying about her mother dying multiple times has got to be a stark wakeup call to people still somehow on the militant anti-GG side. Sadly, it comes rather late in the video, and I'm not sure how many will see it. They're already trotting out bogus reasons to dismiss it and not watch it in the spaces that lean anti-GG but still have enough context to care.
I hope the video didn't disappoint you too much because there wasn't enough new information! That's why I listed some revelations for me, because I wasn't sure how much other people around here would find it redundant.
He didn't really touch on the possible McIntosh ghost-writing, but I agree it's interesting. I think an important core argument of the video is that Zoe was an abuser who got away with it because of bad norms people pushed in an influential left-wing in-group. Zoe really came across as an Anita knock-off, only elevated because she found herself proclaimed a kind of group mascot, a symbol for their cause, and thus unquestionable. However, he also notes that many on her side were probably just deceived, which I think is fair, though people should take this as a lesson to do their due-diligence before joining a cause.
In the end, I think the stakes were pretty small and I'm not sure either side can really say they won. I'm not really sure how influential Gamergate has been in the wider culture. For example, I think Trump's two elections were overdetermined, and thus didn't need Gamergate to happen. I think it's more interesting as a study of human dynamics and as an example of what goes wrong when you try to push any system that does not allow criticism (it gets weaponized by bad actors).
Can the pro-GG side say they won? Some outlets are more conscious of disclosures, but now everyone thinks pro-GG people were just a bunch of CHUDs, and I would guess that in most professional circles, it would be more of a liability to be seen as pro-GG compared to anti-GG. Some anti-GG people at the top were able to grift and profit, but I remember that one quote from someone who said something like "joining the anti-GG movement was the worst decision I ever made." This makes me wonder if anyone but those at the top of the anti-GG pyramid really benefited. Certainly the ones who fell prey to Quinn's likely abuse didn't. Also, as far as history goes, NKB and others have the receipts. I wouldn't be surprised if the historical position on this issue changed once time has depoliticized things.
HB_BENTWORTH
22d ago
You may have finished it already, but he does get to the UN part.
HB_BENTWORTH
23d ago
Gamergate but actually from NeverKnowsBest is maybe the best original, primary source based research I've seen concerning Gamergate. It's also a six-hour long youtube video. I'm going to make the argument that - for the average person who is at all interested in this sort of thing - it's well worth your time to watch it.
If you're like me, before watching you may think you already know most of what was important about the event, incessantly relitigated as it has been over the years. On top of that, it's a highly adversarial information environment, and because of link rot, it's not getting any easier to make sense of what happened. I was very-online enough then to be there from the beginning, after all!
These were all very reasonable thoughts, but they're wrong.
Things I didn't know before watching:
- Zoe Quinn posted dubious accounts of weirdly specific, grotesque harassment for almost 22 months on Twitter before anyone ever knew who she was.
- Ian Miles Cheong was a (very) early booster of Quinn, and his experiences at her Crash Override organization is plausibly what made him switch sides. Something similar seems to have occurred with Candice Owens, in that her experiences with Quinn and her enablers drove her to the right from what appears to be a very left-wing starting place.
- SJW spaces on Tumblr were very sympathetic to Gjoni before the issue was politicized.
- Other things that are more fuzzy in my mind now. I watched it yesterday and I still feel like I'm digesting it.
The link to the sources is down, unfortunately, but a great deal are shown during the video.
I looked around for some reactions to it, and I don't think it has traveled very far yet. Or, perhaps everyone's just burned out on the subject. I actually feel bad for the person who refuses to watch it because NeverKnowsBest was "misgendering" Quinn. It's all out there, now in a long but accessible format. The event does deserve clarity and reflection, if only because of the demonstrable failures of the wider mainstream media, something that should concern all Americans.
If you still don't want to watch it, well, I suppose I can still give a pithy take-away for what it's worth: Gamergate spiraled not because someone was harassed on the internet, because that happens all the time, but was rather a paper-thin smokescreen deployed by powerful people to escape accountability; and because the national media failed to perform the most basic aspects of their job, they got away with it, allowing these obviously bad actors to continue to harm and exploit others for their own gain.
HB_BENTWORTH
1yr ago
On his blog, at one point Watts actually walked back his belief that consciousness is not evolutionarily adaptive after reading a study on it, if I recall correctly. I just searched around for it but couldn't find it - my apologies.
I should add that Blindsight and the Culture series are still some of my favorites though!
It would certainly help her do her job, but it's not evidence of incompetence on its own. I'm not sure about her exact responsibilities, but people adapt stories from books into games and movies all the time, even if the author of the book was from a time before games and movies. To be a good writer, you need to write stories and elements of stories (characters, dialogue) that people appreciate. I think it's possible to write such elements alongside other writers and have it become part of a game without really enjoying the game-playing itself. Also, she didn't say she refused to play the game or anything, just that she didn't really enjoy it. You can do good work even if you don't enjoy something - in fact, that's what most people have to do. I'm not saying I would've hired her, but again, it's not evidence of incompetence alone.
Still, I think this is something people can reasonably disagree on, and I don't have an opinion on if the game was good or bad because I haven't played it. Just making a general point.
Also, is making games journalism obsolete really what anti-GG wanted? A bunch of them were actually in the industry, right?
I wouldn't be so sure about "they write the history books," at least not forever into the future. As time goes on, historians will want to know what actually happened, and because NKB and others did a good job of documenting as much as they could, they will be able to find it. They will look past the headlines and contemporary wikipedia page. They will see Zoe Quinn's documented misbehaviors. They will see an industry in its infancy struggle to develop ethical norms - it's a tale as old as time. Over the long run, issues depoliticize, and people are able to apply a more balanced view of history. I hope and believe that will happen here.
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