HereAndGone
6d ago
he was not an American, but actually Burmese
Finally an explanation for orange man! Not orange, Oriental!
HereAndGone
6d ago
This is also part of it. I can't understand how Owens transitioned (heh!) from "well-regarded conservative commentator" to whatever the heck she's doing now.
HereAndGone
6d ago
They shouldn't even need a medical test, just hospital records of the birth of her kids. So, yeah: I think the ridiculousness of the claims undercuts the Macrons' case. Had Owens been claiming that Mme. Macron was a cougar who had sex with then-15 year old Emmanuel when he was a student in her class, then sure, go ahead with the defamation case. But "she's saying I'm really a man! who stole someone else's identity! and then married my blood-related literally young enough to be my son husband so we're in a gay incestuous underage relationship!" is so extreme, the standard of "would a reasonable person be led to believe this?" can't be proven. And Michelle Obama hasn't sued anybody for similar claims, so it makes the Macrons look even more thin-skinned and, dare I say it, Trumpian?
HereAndGone
6d ago
I mean, I find it ridiculous that a 4chan, sorry, I mean "notorious disinformation hub 4chan" meme is being taken this seriously, but then I remember the OK sign. And it seems some French political rag started it, but that's French politics. All the support for Charlie Hebdo printing cartoons of Mohammed (and I mean this quite separately from the attacks and firebombing) should also extend to stupid right-wing satire about the left-wing president's missis. I acknowledge it's not very comfortable for Mme. Macron, but her husband should be thicker-skinned because yeah, politics.
I hate to give Owens anything, but a free-speech defence may be the way to go here: 'if you are happy about re-publishing cartoons mocking a venerated figure for a couple of billion people, then le président can suck it up'. I think "this claim is so bonkers nobody can possibly take it at face value, seeing as how the woman has given birth to three kids, so this is plainly satirical and not meant as serious political commentary much less claims to be factual" is how it'll go.
Can anybody fill me in on this? I'd seen some Stupid Internet Shit about this but thought it was just edgy nonsense in the same vein about Michelle Obama really being a man. But apparently there's a mini-cottage industry in peddling tales of goings-on in the French president's private and political life?
Attacks on Brigitte Macron’s appearance and falsehoods about her gender have circulated for years, though Owens amplified them considerably in the US. Other prominent women in politics, including Michelle Obama and Kamala Harris, have faced these kinds of “secretly transgender” social media campaigns, the Wilson Center noted in a 2021 report on the “deeply misogynistic” trend. “These narratives tap into the trope of the duplicitous woman, implying that not only are transgender individuals inherently deceptive, but that this deception is responsible for the power and influence that these women hold,” the report said.
The Macrons have previously filed legal claims against two women in France over their theory that Brigitte Macron is a biological male. They were initially found guilty of libel, though that was then overturned, which Brigitte Macron has now appealed.
I don't know who Candace Owens is, and although I've seen her name mentioned online, I deliberately refrained from finding out more because I don't have the time or inclination to go down those rabbit holes. But now the Stupid Edgy Internet Shit is mainstream news, so I am reluctantly requesting information. Can Owens get away with the "clown nose on, clown nose off" Jon Stewart defence of "hey, I'm a comedian and an entertainer, this was just satirical comedy and not meant to be current affairs reporting"? Will we see President and Madame Macron turning up in a Delaware court? How do you tactfully question a witness as to "Yes, you started a romantic affair with your now-husband when you were his teacher and he was in the same class as one of your kids, and his parents tried to separate you so a bit of yikes there, but you are not related to him and so the charges of incest are wrong, as are claims that you were born a male"?
I find it mind-boggling that this nonsense is apparently being taken so seriously, but I guess Emmanuel finally snapped after all the jokes about his height and his 'hot for teacher' marriage. Also it seems that Owens didn't originate these claims, as they started in France, so can that be a defence too?
Prominent US conservative commentator Candace Owens vehemently attacked the first lady in a now-deleted YouTube video posted on March 11, propagating a false claim that first exploded in France just weeks before the 2022 presidential election.
Brigitte Macron is falsely accused of being born as a man called Jean-Michel Trogneux, her maiden surname, with that name going viral as a hashtag.
...Originally shared in the United States on sites like notorious disinformation hub 4chan, the claim snowballed when figures "with very large audiences gave it visibility", doctoral researcher Sophie Chauvet, specialising in audience metrics, told AFP.
In her video, conservative commentator Owens cites a "thorough investigation" by so-called independent journalist Natacha Rey, published in the French newsletter Faits et Documents in 2021.
Founded in 1996 by far-right French figure Emmanuel Ratier and now headed by Xavier Poussard, Faits et Documents regularly promotes stories targeting the first lady, a journalist at the French weekly L'Obs, Emmanuelle Anizon, told AFP.
"But what is new is that Xavier Poussard started translating his articles at the end of 2023," Anizon said, adding that he claims to have sent an English version to those close to former US president Donald Trump.
Anizon, who spoke to Poussard and his associate Aurelien Poirson who advised on the translation, explained that it was no accident that the US far right had taken up the false claim ahead of the November US elections.
HereAndGone
7d ago
I wonder. The way it's reported sounds less "Cousin Miguel knows somebody whose sister-in-law is a clerk in a government office, maybe she can look this up" and more "somebody high up enough to get access to the information straight away". But it's all so nebulous it's not even sure that the alleged family exist, or the guy, or that this story is more than someone trying to use outrage bait to get a juicy payoff from selling interviews to the media (or I suppose using the media to publicise their GoFundMe to 'bring Grandpa home').
Extending the right of civil marriage as a contract to the gays was something that I would have been tepid about and not really minded (until the idiots running the pro-same sex marriage campaign in my country couldn't successfully hide their contempt for normal mores and enraged me to red-hot "I'm voting no in the referendum, I know we're gonna lose but to hell with it, I am not going along with this crap"), but it was ridiculous to say that changing the definition of marriage would not have any effects whatsoever. If we changed the age of consent to be six, I don't think anyone would get away with "now it's legal to fuck six year olds but this will have no effect on wider society whatsoever".
Same way that the number of abortions has gone up in my country once it was legalised. Gosh, you don't say? Making something legal means more of it happens? Who could possibly have foreseen that? Oh, and this is despite the rollout of free contraception and nope, it's not all "pregnant by incestuous rape and I will die unless I get an abortion because I'm only ten" cases:
The number of women having abortions in Ireland rose significantly last year to 10,852, the highest on record since the law changed.
This compares to 8,156 terminations of pregnancy carried out here in 2022 under the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018.
The majority, 10,711, were early medical abortions, where a woman takes two types of tablet prescribed by a GP up to 12 weeks of pregnancy.
Another 108 terminations were due to a diagnosed fatal foetal abnormality where there was a condition likely to lead to death of the foetus.
A further 24 pregnancies were terminated due to risk to the life or health of the mother, while another nine involved an emergency intervention.
...Asked to comment on the overall number of terminations for last year, Dr Shirley McQuade, medical director of the Well Woman Centre, said she was surprised at the high number.
She said while the population has increased and would account for some of the rise, there are likely to be other factors also behind the increase.
She pointed out that free contraception is now available to women aged 17 to 35 years of age, which should make it easier to control fertility.
“The options are out there for women to use. Obviously there is a failure rate in contraception, but it is quite low,” she said.
“There may be women who are on a form of contraception that is not suiting them or they are forgetting to take it. There are women who avoid taking any form of contraception, but are not joining the dots.
“If they are sexually active and not using contraception, the likelihood is they are going to get pregnant.”
So if we add up all the "thousands of women will die unless we get legal abortion!" cases by these figures, that's a whole 108 +24 +9 = 141. Out of 10,852 that comes to... 1.3%. Well I'm so glad compassion and trusting the medical experts won the abortion battle now.
At this stage I'm singing the same old song, but here goes: clears throat But I was told and assured by the government bringing this in that abortion would be limited and would only be for very severe cases of medical necessity! There would be no abortions because "whoops, I got laid and now there's a bun in the oven and I'm not ready for that"! (No, I did not believe any of that so the latest results don't surprise me).
HereAndGone
8d ago
Reading the linked Guardian story, here's a line about the Morning Call paper which broke the story and was getting fed all the heart-rending details from the family:
They noted the purported family ceased responding to their requests for clarification on Monday, and they couldn’t verify details in Guatemala.
Well, I'm sure the heart-broken family will get right back to them any day now in order to clarify what is going on!
HereAndGone
9d ago
There is definitely not a slope, and were there a slope, it definitely would not be slippery.
I'm a social conservative, and the new orthodox faith of the One, True, Catholic Church of Trans Rights is not convincing me to shift on that. All the former gay rights activism that successfully sold the line "if you're not gay, this will have no effect on your life" to the mainstream and the trans activism that piggy-backed on this ("why are those bigoted conservatives so obsessed with bathrooms? no trans person has ever said anything about bathrooms, it's all them!") couldn't maintain the facade. Never mind "bake the cake, bigot", we're now in "um, aren't pregnant people women?/die, heretic! leper outcast unclean!" territory.
Yes, you too can be barred for life from the party you co-founded because you questioned a previous banning for life for not being 200% onboard with "we need this inclusive terminology so trans men and non-binary persons won't feel all oppressed and persecuted when turning up for their pre-natal appointments. Sure, maybe they're only 1% if that of people who turn up to maternity hospitals, but won't the 99% who are women be just overjoyed to make this teeny little change in being referred to not as a mother but a 'pregnant person'? And if they're not thrilled, too bad for them. They better know to keep their mouths shut, the transphobic bigots!"
Believe it or not, I want to be charitable to people who are unhappy with their bodies. I don't want to kick up a fuss about the changes. I'm not even that outraged about bathrooms. But when we're getting to the point of witch-burning someone for just being in the general vicinity of a witch, tell me how this makes society better for us all?
HereAndGone
9d ago
The first one is obviously a scammer, lots of these come out of the woodwork to offer help (at a hefty price) to families whenever there's something newsworthy like a tragedy reported.
The grandpa's brother had a contact in the Chilean government? This sounds less like "simple leatherworker" and more like maybe something is going on that is not being reported. If any of this is true and not a story being peddled around by "Nataly" to make bank off the outrage about deportations. Sometimes people do make up fake stories to sell, shocking I know!
HereAndGone
10d ago
If the author mentions fine details that would refer to some real life incident that is not actually supposed to be in the story, there's a good chance the author is trying to lecture about the real life incident.
But I was assured that "the knife-ears took er jerbs!" scene was not at all meant to be a comment on Trump and immigration! 😁
HereAndGone
10d ago
I wonder if it's because, Walz' attempts at "they're weird" to the contrary, Vance doesn't fit the "rich evil and dumb" or "poor evil and dumb" story about Republicans. He wasn't born rich, he made his way as an outsider into success, and despite anything else they can throw at him, he's smart (not a genius, but not Cletus the Slack-jawed Yokel either).
He's supposed to be either the dumb redneck MAGA voter who is a failure by the Elite Coast metrics and so can safely be dismissed, or made his way out of dumb redneck hillbilly hell, went to the Big City and got a college education, and then adopted the classical liberal to mildly progressive values and so ended up in the Democratic Party. That was supposed to be his trajectory after "Hillbilly Elegy" where he did not glamorise the rural culture he was raised in: religiose, working-class, poor and mired in drug addiction and mediocrity (Alexander Turok should love that). That he did not do this, I think, is what is seen as a betrayal. That's why he has to be excoriated.
HereAndGone
11d ago
All I'm saying is that the multiple traditions of "don't go to this area at this time of year, else you will disappear and not return until decades have passed, you have not aged but everyone you knew is old or dead" point to classic time-dilation effects of FTL travel. Can you deny this evidence and do you still maintain that human-alien contact did not occur until the mid 20th century?
HereAndGone
11d ago
She should have taken the second option, but I think it's a case of "there is no there there"*, Harris just did not have policies of her own (on a national scale at least). So a mix of being pushed not to change horses in mid-stream (don't drop Biden's policies) and not genuinely having anything to replace them (as mentioned by others, very very late in her campaign before her campaign page put up any tangible polices, unlike Hillary who had pages upon pages of policies for all sizes and all comers).
Was it unwinnable? Hard to say: we've seen that as Harris ran her campaign (and her staffers who really should have their feet held to the fire over this - that podcast has way too much whining over 'we had no time, it was so unfair Trump's campaign had all that money and time, things just happened and there was nothing we could have done') it wasn't winnable. She did get handed the rough end of the stick with Biden's campaign collapsing too late to do anything to prepare a better one of her own, and her failed run in 2019 left way too many hostages to fortune. But she did go on to make unforced errors, and her campaign staff for social media ran a terrible campaign, just awful.
*Ironically, a remark about Oakland by Gertrude Stein who grew up there and later returned to visit.
HereAndGone
11d ago
I don't know, are you saying there were no hybrids existing in the 10th century? Because how then do you account for the tales of humans meeting beings from the other world that are common throughout all folklore globally? See the legends of Merlin being a son of "one of the Airish Men" or a demon! So it's feasible that there could have been a hybrid among the Vikings even back then. This anti-Martian prejudice reflects poorly on you, an otherwise stalwart Mottizen!
HereAndGone
11d ago
Plus he's the one single black Elf in the company. Which is okay, I guess, since all the other white Elves get murderised by the Orcs later so at least it didn't happen to anyone important. It's even dumber because the "Southlands" are what later becomes "Mordor", and the Elven garrison is there specifically because the ancestors of the Southlanders fought on the side of Morgoth.
So it's bordered by "to the northeast and east, Rhûn; to the southeast, Khand; and to the south, Harad" which means that the population there has every reason to be racially mixed. But no, we get the majority of the actors with speaking parts being white and racist to The One Single Black Elf, while the good person is the healer Bronwyn played by an Iranian-British actress. I guess the "racism bad, mmkay?" point wouldn't have landed the same had it been brown or black characters abusing a white Elf.
Maybe it's just me, but Cruz Cordova is such a bad actor. I couldn't believe the reviews praising him, he's as wooden as his breastplate in the role.
HereAndGone
11d ago
"Rings of Power" got into trouble for exactly this. I'd give Queen-Regent Míriel a pass (we don't know in canon anything about her mother's family or who her mother was, and there were good Haradrim/Easterlings who interacted with the Edain, so it's not impossible that her maternal family were persons of colour) but the Hobbits, sorry, Harfoots and Stoors, were just too much. A lot of jokes about "and is the final season going to end with they get to the Shire and then there's a mass genocide where only the white Hobbits survive?" since this is meant to be prequel to the LoTR movies and that is established canon that the Hobbits are all white.
I'm waiting for season three to see how they write themselves out of all the corners they've written themselves into, but I wonder will we ever get that season three in the end?
HereAndGone
11d ago
Yeah, I think the moral (as this was the 60s so the Second World War was much closer in time) was a warning about "it couldn't happen here" - yes it could, and even well-intentioned people can be seduced by something that offers what seems to be the public good. The entire German nation wasn't composed of horrible monsters, they were mostly people Just Like You, and they fell for this for different reasons, mostly because they were promised solutions to the mess that was happening right then. And Hitler delivered, for a time, on those promises.
HereAndGone
11d ago
I suppose, as normally used, it's "short term gains mean long term losses". Being enticed away by something that sounds good, to the point you ignore all other intervention, then you end up losing everything.
HereAndGone
11d ago
When you make deals with the Devil, do not try to welch on the deal, it never ends well.
Clearly the Piper is not an ordinary human being, and when you think about it, neither is the plague of rats. If you have a mysterious plague then hot on its heels a mysterious figure turns up offering to fix it for you, pay the goddamn gold and be glad that's all you had to hand over. The city officials were both greedy and stupid, and the entire town had to pay the price as a result.
Maybe also "government officials have always been on the take" as well.
HereAndGone
11d ago
I found you in the comments section of a Hanania tweet
That does not surprise me, now that you told us, but it does give me much more context for where Alexander is coming from.
HereAndGone
11d ago
At the same time, "someone on Twitter said" doesn't tell us much. What 'someone'? Right wing someone, left wing someone, progressive Marxist someone, Aryan supremacy someone? There's a lot of ground that "someone" covers and we don't know if the tweet, taken out of context, is supportive (I'm a liberal, told ya that reality has a liberal bias), is grudgingly supportive (I'm a tankie, liberals get the bullet too, but this once they were right), is supportive from the other side (I'm conservative, this is where we can agree with liberals), is condemnatory (I believe in the superiority of the white race as proven by HBD and the stupid liberals are trying to tar us as spreading misinformation, this is what we have to fight against) or what.
HereAndGone
12d ago
We do have a lot of Brazilians working in the meat processing industry over here (something that surprised me when I learned it). One of the GPs in the practice I attend is Spanish/Brazilian (so I guess that means Portuguese-speaking, though he went to Spain before he came to Ireland - he'd be "White Hispanic" by US census categories) and he was telling me about when he first moved here and the landlord was the 'cash in hand, no rent books, no contract' type that can kick you out in the morning.
HereAndGone
12d ago
Oh sure, but this was one case at least where "white couple adopt troubled black kid, it goes terribly wrong" wasn't about the black kid but the white couple (or one of them). A counterpoint to the "invasive species" bit. There's enough terrible things happening on both sides of adoption/fostering not to put all the blame on one set.
There's been an egregious case around fostering in Ireland recently, which finished up a decade-long investigation with what amounted to a shrug about "well we can't prove the charges of sexual abuse, so all good I guess?" even though the other details were of gross neglect and abuse. Seems like nobody did a damn thing over the years, and even when somebody wanted to, the management decided "well no we can't take the girl out of the placement because that would make us look bad". The country as a whole was seething over this, and rightly so.
Oh, way way back when the first shoots of trans right activism were budding, and it was still possible to have civilised conversations around the topic, I was part of a discussion elsewhere where we were assured up, down and sideways that any qualms were just slippery slope conspiracy thinking. No boy or man would incur the stigma of dressing like a woman or claiming to really be a girl in order to get into locker rooms or bathrooms, we were told.
And then events eventuated, and turns out "I am a girl even though all I've done is grow out my hair and change my name" is plenty okay enough to be worth it. For a while, at least, seems Lia Thomas is not having the career promised after all.
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