HereAndGone
27d ago
Going off on a tangent, I saw that Katie Porter, running for governor of California and currently blowing up in the news for blowing up her campaign, is (according to Wikipedia) an Episcopalian.
And I had to laugh, because that's just so perfect. Of course she would be. Though I don't know if the Episcopalians want to be linked to someone trending right now for being an absolute bitch to her staff, amongst other things. Allegedly she fired a staff member for giving her Covid, because said staff member didn't mask while in her house, even though the staff member explained that was because she was upset about learning a friend had been murdered (and also supposedly Porter had been vaccinated previously). So yeah, charming lady, totally who you would want governing you.
HereAndGone
28d ago
If it turns out that souls and angels and demons are real, then physicists will publish articles constraining the relevant parameters of archangel Gabriel in short order.
And the theologians will go "Hi, glad to see you, and it only took you eight centuries to catch up with us!" 😁
HereAndGone
28d ago
Yeah, ELCA is the most liberal, LCMS is more conservative than that, and WELS is the most conservative, right?
If he's German-American I could see some variety of Lutheran background and of course even a liberal Lutheran probably isn't all that fond of the papacy. Still makes me laugh that he's warning Vance off; seems like the new Pope should be warned off Vance ("Careful, your Holiness, your predecessor died the day after meeting him!") 🤣
Wikipedia isn't very helpful, German Evangelicalism is probably different from the American version:
"Thiel is a self-described Christian and a promoter of René Girard's Christian anthropology. He grew up in an evangelical household but, as of 2011, described his religious beliefs as "somewhat heterodox".
This could be his parents' background:
The Evangelical Church in Germany is a federation of twenty Lutheran, Reformed, and United Protestant regional Churches in Germany, collectively encompassing the vast majority of the country's Protestants. It calls itself the Protestant Church in Germany in English. In 2024, the EKD had a membership of 17,979,849 members, or 21.5% of the German population. It constitutes one of the largest Protestant bodies in the world. Church offices managing the federation are located in Herrenhausen, Hanover, Lower Saxony. Many of its members consider themselves Lutherans."
Or they could be Evangelical in the American sense:
Despite their many similarities, evangelicals are not a homogenous group. In the German-speaking world, they can be roughly divided into three main denominations:
- Confessing Evangelicals, who value the authority of traditional church confessions , are found in conservative circles within regional churches, for example, in the No Other Gospel confessional movement and the Conference of Confessing Communities .
- The charismatic evangelicals, mainly in charismatic circles of the regional churches and in the congregations of the Pentecostal movement .
- The Evangelicals in the Pietistic tradition, mainly in the Pietism of the regional churches, in traditional free churches and in the Mennonite Brethren congregations , which were often founded by Russian-German emigrants .
He was born in Hesse, so his family could be these:
Open Evangelicals or Neo-Evangelicals: This movement takes a distanced stance towards biblical criticism but is willing to accept certain of its findings. It is found particularly among evangelicals in the regional churches. This largely includes regional church Pietism with its regional focuses in Baden-Württemberg , Hesse and Saxony and the Protestant Community Movement and its educational institutions such as the Albrecht Bengel House , the Evangelical Tabor University in Marburg, the Liebenzell International University in Bad Liebenzell , the Johanneum or the Paulinum . In the free churches they are particularly represented among the Old Lutherans such as the Independent Evangelical Lutheran Church , among the Mennonites and Methodists , although there are also "non-evangelical" Christians among these, and in the more liberal wings of other free churches.
Since we don't know, it's difficult to speculate about his childhood religious influences. Possibly Pietist-influenced Lutherans?
HereAndGone
28d ago
Yeah, Musk may be crazy and I was never a fan even back in the days when he was being worshipped as a god of tech, but he does have a Vision and a Plan. He does want to build electric vehicles. He does want to build self-driving cars. He does want to build private, reusable space vehicles. He does want to colonise Mars.
Most other high-paying, multi-million salary CEO jobs are "Tom Bimble left Wahoo! and has now joined MegaMart, replacing Tim Bamble who has gone to Wahoo!" Interchangeable guys who didn't found the company, weren't there for its rapid growth phase, and whose job is basically "don't run it into the ground, but even if you do, your contract ensures a golden parachute".
That's where the resentment comes in: I screw up in my job, I get fired. CEO Tim screws up, he is the cause of a lot of people losing their jobs, but the terms of his contract means he walks away with a million-dollar pension and may well walk into a new job.
HereAndGone
28d ago
I wondered if he might have swerved towards some branch of Orthodoxy, given his use of Greek theological terms, but as you say the gay thing does rule against it. Plus the warning about Caesaropapism, given that the prime example of that was the Byzantine church and the Eastern Churches in general don't think that Councils can be called without the authority of the Emperor (who is no more, unless we all accept Trump as the new Emperor?)
Warning Vance against the pope is very funny and possibly tongue-in-cheek, given the memes about pope Francis' death very soon after meeting Vance.
HereAndGone
28d ago
Notably missing among the horsemen of anti-science are ...the Christian right who oppose stem cell research"
Embryonic stem cell research yes, adult stem cell no.
"and CRISPRing fetuses."
Oooh, ooooh! That are me? Me am Antichrist? Yay! Fame at last!
still stuck in the 18th century alongside people like Richard Dawkins who believe that science and atheism are compatible ...Almost nobody was openly atheist in 18th century Europe."
I would like to see more development of this point. I think he's referring to The Enlightenment when open atheism did become a thing, that's when we get a lot of writings by revolutionaries and radicals (see Shelley, though that's early 19th century, and of course Voltaire with his "is he/isn't he" flirting at least with atheism). So I would be interested for his reasons as to why he thinks science and atheism are not compatible.
Theism increases the risk of some moral failings and perhaps lowers the risk of others, but the correlation is not so robust that I would really care about it"
Would you care to expand on that? Seeing as I'm in the running for Antichrist due to my retrograde religious views, I need moral guidance from those of superior virtue (that is only half-sarcastic; an outside view is always useful and I would like to see if your notion of the theistic vices line up with what I think you would say are the theistic vices).
HereAndGone
29d ago
Yeah, but why is it subconsciously affecting him? What's the peril the sister might be in? You haven't established that sufficiently, the set-up sounds like he would have reacted the same way even if there was no ferry with a sister on it tomorrow. "Whoops, oh crap, what do I do? Manual says get in touch with other person to do the dual key turn", not "I better sort this out now or else my sister's ferry will blow up in the middle of World War Three". I might be thinking "Huh, my sister is going to go down the town to do grocery shopping tomorrow" but that's not making me rush to do something in my job that isn't standard procedure. If there's no danger, there's no reason to be het-up and reacting irrationally.
The tiny scale manipulation seems to be "put pressure on by popping up message never encountered before", not "heh heh dumb fleshbag and his emotional attachments".
I'm asking "so why is it important the sister was going to be on a ferry?" and you're answering "it's not important, she was perfectly safe, that's why he reacted irrationally" and I'm going "whut?"
HereAndGone
29d ago
Apparently that's the Big Mac; it has two 1/10th of a pound patties to the Quarter-Pounder's one 1/4 of a pound patty. 2/10ths = 1/5th, so that's the 1/5 burger right there!
People pick either Quarter Pounders or Big Mac for reasons other than amount of meat; the Big Mac has more options while the Quarter Pounder is plain meat-and-bun (and cheese and condiments). Depends if you want the flavour of the pickles and sauce versus just 'gimme the meat' (and give it to me raw?)
Maybe they failed because they were trying to copy McDonalds too closely? Skip the "we give you a third of a pound for the same price as a quarter of a pound" and instead emphasise "fresh beef, better taste, superior value".
The Third Pound just sounds like really bad marketing, because they were chasing the established hold McDonalds had with their quarter-pounders. I could easily see someone going "but I don't want more meat in my burger; a quarter-pounder is big enough for me!" or if they did want more meat, then they'd go for two burgers.
It's like someone trying to compete against Coke by going "we're just like Coke only we have bigger bottles" - that's not different enough to make me switch from Coke. What's unique about your product?
That anecdote does sound too much like "it can't be our fault the product failed, it was the dumb consumers!" Tell that to New Coke 😁 Even if your customers are dumb, they are still your (potential) customers so if this approach isn't working, scrap it and go for one that does: "bigger and better for the same price!" Don't call it a third pounder, compare "we have over 5 ounces of prime fresh beef in every burger versus 4 ounces of processed meat in our rivals" to sell it, not mess around with trying to copy the brand name of a McDonalds product that is already well-established. Call it the Big Beautiful Burger! 🤣
HereAndGone
29d ago
Maybe X produces more social and community value by providing cookies to family and neighbours than Y does by profiteering off potheads?
HereAndGone
29d ago
But in a modern economy, it is perfectly possible for an exceptional man to produce 1000x the value of a regular man.
But is the CEO of Starbucks that man?
The perceived injustice is "He and the other execs get to vote themselves a 10% pay increase Because They're Worth It, at the same time they are slashing headcount because 'labour costs too high'. Belt-tightening somehow always means the guys on the shop floor, not the managers. And yet the managers get way more perks just for sitting at a desk".
HereAndGone
1mo ago
Yes, the conclusion (whenever he gets to it) is going to be interesting, let's say. I suppose I'm irritated because "Tidus" isn't even a figleaf, oh the Race of Kings all live on a cold island in the far North and the Tropicals are all dark-skinned and live in the hot lands around the equator? You don't say? Gosh where have I heard that before?
Plus extra irritation at the use of Earendil as a pen-name, when he's writing this guff. A quote from a 1941 letter of Tolkien to his son Michael:
I have spent most of my life, since I was your age, studying Germanic matters (in the general sense that includes England and Scandinavia). There is a great deal more force (and truth) than ignorant people imagine in the 'Germanic' ideal. I was much attracted by it as an undergraduate (when Hitler was, I suppose, dabbling in paint, and had not heard of it), in reaction against the 'Classics'. You have to understand the good in things, to detect the real evil. But no one ever calls on me to 'broadcast', or do a postscript! Yet I suppose I know better than most what is the truth about this 'Nordic' nonsense. Anyway, I have in this War a burning private grudge – which would probably make me a better soldier at 49 than I was at 22: against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler (for the odd thing about demonic inspiration and impetus is that it in no way enhances the purely intellectual stature: it chiefly affects the mere will). Ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making for ever accursed, that noble northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light. Nowhere, incidentally, was it nobler than in England, nor more early sanctified and Christianized.
HereAndGone
1mo ago
I don't think Trump is aware of doctrinal differences between denominations, and he was just throwing red meat out there in the wake of the Kirk assassination.
Well, whatever the reason as to why the guy attacked the church, it was a terrible thing to happen.
HereAndGone
1mo ago
To be cynical, and invoking Freddie deBoer here, because there haven't been movies and TV shows and books all about how TB is ackshully a really wunnerful thing, not an illness, it's quirky! creative! unconventional! cool! people thing and it's only Big Pharma Medical Complex trying to force people to stop having TB. Nobody's made "One Flew Over The Magic Mountain" about wicked nurses torturing TB patients with mountain air and health regimes:
The crisis narrative always wins the news cycle. If someone takes an antidepressant and gradually feels a little better, regains the ability to get out of bed, makes it to work on time, and starts seeing friends again, that’s not much of a story. It certainly doesn’t get shared a million times on Twitter. If someone becomes convinced that they were abducted by psychiatry against their will, forcibly drugged, and psychically violated by an evil pharmaceutical conspiracy - well, that’s content, baby. The former story is true of millions and millions of people. But how often do you hear from them?
HereAndGone
1mo ago
I know this is a big problem, but why does it happen?
Combination of "I feel perfectly fine, I don't need this" plus the side-effects can range from not great to terrible, plus there may be a dash of "I'm not crazy, why are they giving me pills for being crazy?" denial in the mix.
Same general area as "why do people stop taking antibiotics half way through the course?" Because the immediate symptoms are gone, they feel way better, so why would they need medicine when they're not sick anymore?
HereAndGone
1mo ago
Yeah. Mormons are not Christians. But to pop up with that point of doctrine in the immediate aftermath of "people attending a Mormon church were shot and burned to death" is not the best time. I wouldn't do it, and I'm as Torquemada as the next inquisitor.
HereAndGone
1mo ago
Re-reading that, it really does reflect badly on Trace. A bunch of people did everything they could to make this fake story as realistic and convicting as possible; then when LoTT did try some fact-checking they made up more plausible explanations as to why they couldn't give exact details.
Having lied as hard as possible, Trace then piously lectured about not fact-checking, conveniently forgetting he had worked to subvert the fact-checking they did. Yeah, sure: "on the face of it, it was dumb; nobody could possibly believe this if you know anything about furry sub-culture". But if you don't know and you're hearing true stories of equally crazy shit happening, how do you mystically intuit "ah yes, this tale must be fake but this one about 'let's change language to chest-feeding and inseminated person' is true"?
HereAndGone
1mo ago
It seems like bad choices all the way down when it comes to the question of when should these individuals lose their rights.
Exactly. To treat them, you have to drag them in against their will, medicate them against their will, and keep them locked up until they start responding to the medication. That's a horrible thing to do, but you might have to do it.
Then you let them out, and hope to God they maintain the medication regime instead of dropping it the second they're released and ending up back in the same rinse and repeat cycle.
HereAndGone
1mo ago
I mean, yeah. Back when I worked in social housing, we had a client the same way (and same kind of delusions about the government spying on her). On her meds, she was perfectly functional. Off her meds, she gradually slid all the way down to 'can't hold down a job, is delusional, is talking a mile a minute in that stream of consciousness way'.
It's sad. Luckily she never got into any physical harm, but turn the delusions about the neighbours up a notch, add a gun into the mix... and the outcome probably wouldn't be great.
And it is exactly at that intersection of "should there be intervention or should this person be left alone?" Because intervention would probably mean - for Hassan as well - involuntary commitment and being made to take the meds. And Hassan does not sound like he'd take well to people trying to force him to take drugs. But without the meds he's dangerous - or is he?
That's the big, troubling question here. He's functional enough to be able to look after himself, and he hasn't gotten into trouble yet. The problem is the "yet". So long as talk about getting a gun is only talk, it's not at the point of "yeah he needs to be taken in". The problem is, how do you judge when he hits that point?
HereAndGone
1mo ago
It reminded me so strongly of Belloc's riff on The Nordic Man that I had to quote it.
Now, he may be playing us all for fools and in the last instalment he'll reveal all - "what, you thought I was serious? and you guys think you are so smart?"
I hope so. I would rather be thought a fool than a knave.
Look, I'm not blind, and this is the Motte, where you are allowed to just speak plainly. It just feels like needless pussyfooting.
I've flat-out called this guy a racist and sexist, and that's what I think he's getting at. He's trying to tip-toe around all that by "ha ha, you dummies fell for my cunning ploy! No, I will reveal the real meaning in a later chapter!" but uh, so far, it's "the real meaning is racism and sexism".
I think I have established my "no I am not a progressive" credentials enough that if this reeks of 19th century racist anthropology to me (and I've read cheap mass-market reprints of old texts so I can say that with some confidence), that is what is going on.
HereAndGone
1mo ago
Hajnalis aren't 'white people' and Tropicals aren't 'blacks'
Could have fooled me with all the bullshit about melanin in the skin etc. Are you going to edit that out for your oh-so-important book that will solve all our cultural and societal problems when you remind white men that they are white men and should reawaken to their ancestral superiority?
HereAndGone
1mo ago
Oh and if you are just now dropping in and find something objectionable in the post below, ha ha, despair, for you have fallen for my devious and excessively-elaborate device
Oh, phew! Because it sounded way too near to "I am White Aryan Race of Kings riding around on horses waving swords conquering lesser nations Guy and I am sneaking up on A Modest Proposal: The Final Solution for all those pesky brown and black people Tropical Islanders" crossed with "The White Man's Burden, and boy do I mean White and Man".
But lucky for us, all the "them violent, dumb, criminal Tropicals, huh?" content is only a cunning fake.
HereAndGone
1mo ago
I think it's a big step from "want a girlfriend, can't find one" to "have a boyfriend who is going to transition to female". One of these things is not like the other. If I want to cook chicken for dinner but there's none in the fridge, I'll cook something else. I won't go "You know, I think I'll drink some petrol instead, it's all fuel, right?"
Because "blast in explosives factory" is not necessarily "OMG, the only possible explanation is Russian sabotage"? Flour mills blow up, too, as do cement plants, and they're not even deliberately making things that go "boom!"
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