BANNED USER: requested 1-month ban for time management
>Unban in 11d 15h 03m
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
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User ID: 314
Banned by: @FCfromSSC
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
22d ago
What bloodless cowardice! You won't even risk yourself in a hypothetical. And yes, yes, it's very easy to proclaim bold words about though the heavens fall... when they'll be falling on someone else.
Those lines SHOULD NOT BE CROSSED. What lines? Well, a google search and CNN indicate that it's "the rooms are spartan" and "the machismo-fueled murderous warlords are subjected to minor submission displays". Your unbounded concern for their heads being shaved is truly... something.
Consider that your first rejection dismissed. For the second, you are responsible for the outcomes of your actions - including advocacy. If you advocate for a policy, you bear some moral burden for it's results. And you're, by revealed preference, not willing to even pretend to bet your life that your actions to comfort the guilty won't fall ruinously on the innocent.
I want you to take sixty actual seconds and think about your life. Have you ever been punched in the face? Ever feared for your life by the actions of another? Known serious, frightening Maslow-bottom want? Have you ever actually been face-to-face with someone willing and able to deliver grievous harm? I implore you to consider the possibility that you're actually one of the most coddled, protected and privileged creatures that has ever existed on the face of this earth. Consider that employing your ideals, stringent and untethered even by the standards of the safest and most secure society ever built, may not actually be directly applicable to a different society that was subject to widespread warring-bands raider-ism within the last Macbook development cycle.
It was very easy for Sir Terry to hold such lofty ideals in the unsurpassed safety of post-war Britain. Now that country intimidates and jails people for tweets.
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
23d ago
I criticized the “Handmaiden’s Tale” chicken little-ing on “my team” for years, because unlike the MAGA cult, I don’t feel any compulsion to twist myself into defending whatever insane bullshit “my team” decides to push any given week.
Well, you didn't do it here under that name. If you can link a single example elsewhere, I'll be thrilled to be wrong.
Nobody is crying about an alien simply being improperly deported, don’t be disingenuous. Administrative errors happen, I get it. The problem is that he was sent indefinitely to a torture-prison without due process, while the the government is arguing at the same time that 1: they want to send citizens to the same place, and 2: if they fuck up, there is literally no remedy.
Sorry, just need to stop to clarify here. The prison you're talking about is the one that turned El Salvador from a murder capitol of the world to safer than Sweden, right?
Do you hate the El Salvadoran people? Do you want them to be tortured and murdered en masse by rapacious warlords and banditos? Victimized and preyed upon in even greater amounts? Or is this just the meme?
If not, then maybe that stark difference ought to be taken into account.
And even then, I still don't buy your take. Let's establish some facts. He was deported to his home country, and his own government imprisoned him, as they do with everyone affiliated with the rapacious warlords who murdered and terrorized a fuckton of their people. He already had multiple days in court before judges, and had a deportation order.
Imagine if the US government had caught the "not to El Savador" clause in time, then had a quick hearing where it was determined that his asylum claim was obviously false, and the grounds for the "not to El Salvador" clause were obviously voided by the changed facts on the ground (e.g. his mother no longer owned the business, and the gang he claimed would harm him no longer exists).
Would you suddenly be OK with him being deported?
If we deported him somewhere else, and that country then deported him back to El Salvador, would you be OK with that?
Because your actual logic looks a lot like "We can't deport this criminal, because his native country will do normal things they do to criminals to him", and that might be literally the most perverse logic I've ever heard. Again, it comes back to endless empathy for offenders, and none at all for the people they hurt. It's so fucked up I'm not even appalled. I hit some overflow error and ended up reluctantly impressed at the evil clown logic.
And again, NONE OF THIS justifies being worried about citizens being deported.
I’d just like you to imagine if Biden or Obama were advocating this sort of thing. The people on this website would be calling for armed rebellion.
Per our prior correspondence, which you ignored, Obama did things many times worse (e.g. assassinating a minor citizen for fun) and I never heard anyone call for armed rebellion over it.
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
23d ago
Ok, ES tries a different, more humane method, BUT, for every gang murder above the current base rate, one Humane Prisons Advocate gets executed. You first.
Would you accept this deal?
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
23d ago
A catastrophe like straight up murdering a minor citizen? Should I follow the other side's MO and just ignore inconvenient events like my augmented reality censors them away? Or an abhorrent catastrophe like deporting an illegal alien with a deportation order... to the wrong place?
You guys have been breathlessly, hysterically screaming about endless catastrophes, a new one every week, for literally every week the man has been in office. Remember when he was going to put all the gays in camps and legalize rape and Handmaiden's Tale and kill all the Muslims and start WW3 and start WW3 and start WW3? Of course not. Because remembering all the failed hysterical catastrophizing might offer some perspective.
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
23d ago
It is if you can find a prosecutor with half the flexibility of a progressive district judge.
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
23d ago
You know what's poison to discourse? Being expected to take every bit of speculative, hysterical catastrophizing with more deadly seriousness than actual things that literally happened. Member when the president had a 16 year old US citizen murdered by flying robot assassin? I member. How does that compare to an off-hand comment that was immediately followed with caveats about legality? Is it a thousand times worse? A million? Are you going to take those caveats as deadly serious evidence of Trump's deadly serious concern for the law? Of course not.
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
24d ago
For having broken what laws?
Conspiracy to human trafficking.
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
24d ago
Trump has dropped plenty of hints that he is thinking about sending American citizens to El Salvador prisons.
Until he makes any kind of effort at doing so, this seems much more likely to be a cruel taunt. Trump is much more understandable once you grasp that he's essentially a right-wing John Oliver type, but less stupid.
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
24d ago
Bringing him back, so that ICE could follow the correct process to re-deport him would be embarrassing to ICE
Seems more embarrassing to your faction. "Look at this pointless waste of time and resources that we had to do because Other Team only cares about abusing the rules to help illegal alien gang members."
Do you really think this would generally serve to increase respect for norms around due process?
Point of order, but the hypothetical was "you have actual skin in the game, and face the risk you're so righteously demanding El Salvadoran citizens endure". After all, if your policy advocacy doesn't result in more El Salvadorans being murdered, then there's no risk to you at all!
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