Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
Hello back frens
User ID: 2022
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
I think the explanation here is that mathematics got stuck on a local maximum. Apollonius developed the classical geometry of conic sections to the point where (for the few people able to master it) it was more powerful than co-ordinate geometry without calculus.
Interestingly enough Spengler (himself a math teacher) had this as one of his illustrations of the difference between classical and faustian mentality. I have found this to be a great unintentional illustration of the idea.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
Did any of them have children or were planning to?
No, but thats more to do with other demands on their time - an idea found in normal rationalism as well, though obviously not as serious/demanded. Ive talked about it before, but the zizian doctrine blows up even independently of the values.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
Overlap with the Zizians, for sure.
I dont think those are exterminsationist, or even anti-natalist on principle?
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
Anyway, I think Bryan and Scott suffer from the glaring weakness many elites/intelligentsia have and don't even notice. They aren't exposed to the direct impacts of their own policy ideas or the ACTUAL outcomes of their thinking... I note the same thing about Bryan's stance on open borders.
Are you gonna explain how they are insulated wrt their parenting ideas?
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
Christian nationalists believe they will succeed because God is on their side. You may not accept these reasons as being valid, but they are very real and compelling reasons to them.
I suppose if you think that gods commands are entirely unrelated to how he chose to create the world, and will win out purely through some kind of direct intervention (but still you do have to fight with maximum effectiveness for it to happen, any moral scruples and you lose), it would lead to this strategy. But I dont think this specific version just is christian belief, and that its appealing to some ideologues precisely because theyve internalised not believing in a natural order.
all they can do is encourage the development of a civil society that wants to be socialism/christian, etc. The strategy is sound. The reason that it's not done by everyone is that it's hard and requires patience.
You dont think the establishment tries to maintain a civil society that wants them?
Hitler sums it up in Mein Kampf
Im not saying those tactics cant work - someone is always gonna win. And a brief look at his neighbors and historical context suggests it wasnt just random either. There are propably some ideosyncratic positions of the Nazi party that that won only with them, because Hitler was a great speaker, but the general direction seems to derive from broader factors.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
Im not talking about "principles", per se. "Burn it all down so that my ideology can inevitably emerge from the ashes" is an asymmetric method as far as Im concerned (though usually not a very good one). Content-agnostic methods are those that, definitionally, everyone can use. If youre ideology is in any way related to how society works, you should have more options available to you.
Another way of looking at it: Yes, christian nationalism is in a very weak position. That means if you only use methods that everyone can use, you should expect to get crushed, since theres a winner-takes-all effect to this, and youre not really any better at it. Why do you think you can win?
Now the reasons why your original tactics don't work in defiance of your ideology in the first place..?
I think if your tactics dont work, its generally in your interest to have a think about why.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
10 years ago we won with a drag queen, yesterday with a countertenor. Double gay, yes, but also in some sense balance restored.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
Permanent neutral status for Ukraine (like Austria)
Im still surprised by this. Our neutrality has always seemed to me like it gained the Soviets little. Anything to say about this from your end?
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
To the proponents of the "woke right" idea: have you seen any equivalent to "checking your privilege"? As far as I can tell, responses to Minority people participating range from "all hail the great based one", over not treating it any different, to "dont believe that niggerfaggot". But not any specific demands.
Id also like to see your best examples of struggle sessions. I expect this to be less objectively determinable than the above, but worth discussing.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
I would make the argument that Gramsci's tactics are, by their nature, apolitical: and they are successful enough that even his most hated ideological enemies have adopted them because they are effective and they work.
If the best methods for advancing your values are completely content-agnostic, then I think theres something wrong with your values. More commonly, people think its must be the best because theyre swimming in modernism, where everyone thinks this because to claim otherwise would be like the naturalistic fallacy. But if, like a christian nationalist presumably does, you actually believe youre in alignment with the natural order, shouldnt this manifest itself in some useable way in real social effects?
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
On the other hand, a chick who's down to lie to others for my benefit could mean she's ride-or-die for me. Similarly, a chick who's down to take from others and give to me is based and good.
Its on a second date. Unless youre a gigachad, you should assume she does this for people shes second-date-familiar with, possibly less. (A similar logic applies to early sex)
Second, while "willing to lie for you" is a benefit, its also important to be wise about it. I wouldnt go do this myself if you brought it up to me, and Im similarly not excited about her thinking its a good idea.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
Now we see a test of naked American authority in Trump's exploitative trade war, in “DO NOT RETALIATE AND YOU WILL BE REWARDED” bullshit.
Ok, I think I have a bit more to say about this now. I dont think we can really call this "the full extent of american power" if Trump hasnt even floated military action. And even the actual military threats over Greenland, we have taken seriously but not literally. Its all quite a while off from the US really going "or else". The other thing is that IMO, much of the american influence over Europe comes not from direct threats but maintaining an ideologically aligned establishment. Trump has only limited use of that, because its aligned to atlanticism and in communion with the relevant academic/think tank circles, not to the government per se. Technically speaking, some right-populists have a platfrom on the Ukraine war closer to the current administration than that of the mainstream parties - but its the latter who are "loyal to America" in the relevant sense. Thats why Nordstream is a good indicator: Preventing it is at the core of what Id expect US influence to do, but local economic interest (and a feel-good story about the cold war being over) won out.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
Do the links show through the spoiler for others too?
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
driving law
I think the theoretically proper way to do this is to make driving laws the "terms of service" for road use. Ordinary contracts can impose all sorts of conditions without mens rea, but punishments would be limited to monetary and losing your license.
That said, I dont think strict liability is really a problem, and its more so just bad- and overregulation in general. I mean, the feathers example doesnt turn on strict liability at all - ignorance of the law is no excuse in either case, and she clearly did intentionally take possession of those feathers. Its just that a ban on possession irrespective of provenance is appropriate to uranium, not bird feathers.
you have degenerated into kanging and chimping
"You" as in me, or the forum? Because I agreed with the conclusion here. In general I dont necessarily mean that youre wrong about this stuff, more that a) its very predictable what direction youll go and b) you dont give a lot besides that direction. I agree that what I remember from you about the chinese-AI overlap was better. I did exaggerate.
They feel like Main Characters of history, who are destined to win for narrative reasons and therefore can afford arbitrary foolishness in the midgame
I do in fact have some stock on pre-boomer-racism that is more or less that. But part of that is that its not the "midgame" because I dont think the game ends, either as a whole or for whites specifically. Which might be related to AI scepticism. It doesnt impact medium-term prediction that much.
Now we see a test of naked American authority
I see what you mean. I can just say thats not how people here in europe think of it, and that in itself should influence how we read the reaction.
just a demand to shut up
I dont want you to shut up. Ideally Id want you to start posting about other topics as well again, since these two arent really my focus, but if these post were more substantial in relation to the gloating, that would be an improvement as well.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
The hierarchy it’s replacing isn’t the hierarchy of government, but the more nebulous, albeit extremely real, hierarchy of informal status that drives people to compete for praise, attention, and mates.
I thought this was you saying "People still compete for praise, attention, and mates, but now the game is different" - because that would sound like worldy rewards. If you mean something people do instead of competing for those, then... it seems your prescription on earth actually is communism. Youre saying its not communist only because your reasons are different, where originally I thought your defense was along the lines of "Some christian beliefs in isolation would prescribe communism, but if you consider the supernatural principles as well, it no longer prescribes communism even on earth.".
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
Im also not talking about the church hierarchy. Those are officially managerial positions. What I mean is that general christian virtue ends up being a "jealous god" about the use of your status to an extent that becomes effectively managerial. Youre not supposed to derive worldly rewards from it. Matthew 6 goes in that direction relatively explicitly.
Of course this has mostly not been actual practice, but its been there, and radical/restorationist people keep hitting upon it, and... I see their point.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
replaces the hierarchy based on strength with a hierarchy based on moral goodness
The thing is that goodness applies to many things, including how you use said position. Companies typically have a hierarchy, but high positions in that hierarchy are not really "status" in the conventional sense. The higher salary they bring might be status, but the position itself is largely-exhausted in what you have to do to keep it - managers authority as opposed to owners authority. Of course its not always like this, and sometimes positions do lean more towards feudal fief, but you get the idea. The kind of status you describe christianity as bestowing is managers authority, and it often seems to be opposed to anything but its particular management authority, and that is what creates a quasi-communist impression.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
Either horn of the dilemma presents an issue.
I think in the general case, the resolution is that love is for a conrete quality at first, and grows independent of them over time. You can consider a bare particular stripped even of its own past, but I dont think thats really relevant to anything. I dont see how that can generalise to loving all humanity, but it well may.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
Firstly, women feel a social and interpersonal pressure to have sex they don't want. Like they need a good reason not to have sex with someone.
Related to the first... Badgering women into having sex with you after they've said no is apparently fine in some people's minds.
Its an interesting sort of "relation" between the two. Im not particularly worried about the badgering because you dont need a reason. Basically. The more liberal lykurg just saw this as a character flaw. Today, I doubt both that women in general can stop being so agreeable, and that its entirely flawed. Still, "intimidating guys out of talking my daughter into things" feels like a desperate last resort. I still think the agreeable instinct can at least be directed away from people you first met in the bar that evening, and failing that, Id try to keep them in safe circumstances.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
They can in fact fudge anything that isnt legal writ, and sometimes also not stuff youll notice within a week or so of buying it. Asking question can help when youre buying something like insurance, which was your example above, but for most stuff its "as seen".
Refusing to engage with salesmen opens one up to a different sort of self-scam
"The salesman himself is radioactive" seems like a different thing that youre tacking on there. But if youre selectively ignoring the supermajority of what they say, that is "cynical suspicion" by any reasonable use of the word.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
I never feel like I learn something from your comments anymore. Its always just AI/China is the best, unbeatable, even better than you thought, and not even committing to anything concrete there. Like for example:
That the EU has sovereignty, that Canada has sovereignty, that… basically, that the US is not a big scary hegemonic superpower it imagines itself to be and sometimes laments the wages of being. It's just a very powerful country, with large but decidedly finite leverage, and that runs well short of getting everyone to play along with American King's unreasonable imagination.
In what sense wasnt this already demonstrated by Germany buying russian gas? That seems like a case where wed expect more US influence than any of this tariff debacle.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
The sneer faction are blue-tribe/academic turbonormies. The contrast is no more confusing, and to some extent explained by, AOC not saying anything about poly.
Lykurg
We're all living in Amerika
4mo ago
and lack the ability to distinguish a good sales pitch from a scam
What is the difference between a good sales pitch and a scam? As far as I can tell, nothing about the pitch itself, only the product. Certainly, it takes intelligence to understand those products, but discarding the sales talk is just correct. Salespeople are trying to screw you.
Somewhat of an aside, but I have found Taleb supremely frustrating - he sounded like a typical "empirics bro" making wild in-principle-statements as if hes disproven mathematics, which I rounded down to "dont be too confident in your models". It took a completely different branch of thought for me to learn about the problems of infinite variance for decision theory.
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