MayorofOysterville
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User ID: 3800
MayorofOysterville
1d ago
There's a bi difference between women aren't having kids and women aren't having enough kids. According to those stats most women still have at least one child.
MayorofOysterville
1d ago
Jim doesn't want to go back to anytime. The level of control of women he wants has never existed in Western Christian society and the relief efforts of the Catholic church in South America during the 16th century would be intolerable churchianity to him. He wants contemporary Afghanistan not anything that's ever existed Christendom.
MayorofOysterville
1d ago
Yeah even ignoring all the murder the level of government control he want would be intolerable, in addition to micromanaging personal interaction I suspect the Jim party would wind up suppressing basically every Christian denomination as "heretical churchianity"
MayorofOysterville
1d ago
Very few for all those. The Houthis and Hezbollah are Shia who ISIS thinks are heretics that deserve to be brutally murdered and most recruits from Gaza just join Hamas and Hamas has few foreign fighters.
I agree with the general thrust though ISIS probably sucked a lot of people in who would have committed terrorist attacks in Europe.
MayorofOysterville
1d ago
So I read that article and am pretty unconvinced. For one a lot of nonwhites are already here and are thus neighbors according to Jim's reading if the parable. The other is most of the starving African children that Jim references are Christian and there's all sorts of stuff in the New Testament about helping brothers of the faith. I feel like Jim's Christianity is about as true to the text as Episcopalians which is to say they really really want to ignore the parts of the bible that conflict with their internal morality. He references the old testament genocides but all of those were towards pagans not towards believers.
MayorofOysterville
1d ago
My first reaction to this is but why though? Why do all that? (besides it being his sexual power fantasy) My second thought was does he actually have any kids himself because a lot of these guys don't.
But we had a much higher birthrate in living memory, in a society much similar to our own, so if you believe we need to urgently raise the birthrate as the number one priority it makes a lot more sense to implement something like the 1930s moral values rather than white shariah. And that's the other thing his call to RETVRN isn't even that. Western Christian society has never had rules like that and Northern Europeans have always had a degree of gender equality. Compare the number of premodern ruling queens in Europe to anywhere else, or the status of Viking women, or Medieval women or convents or another dozen examples. So he's actually trying to implement something that has never actually existed in Western society except among the FLDS I guess. Also there's a lot of evidence that it's more about rural life vs urban life than strict control of women. The 1860s USA or contemporary sub-Saharan both have a higher fertility rate than Saudi Arabia for example.
Speaking of society Jim could actually move to a society that shares his vision much of the Gulf have created a system like that with migrants serving at their pleasure and subjugated women. But he won't he'll say it's cause he hates Arabs and Muslims but that's the problem he wants white ISIS to take over society and brutally murder everyone he hate but white ISIS doesn't exist and never did. It's telling that a lot of his commentators are Indians who do practice the kind of father arranged marriages he wants. Basically any white Christian conservative from any point in history would be pretty horrified at a lot of his ideas. And the vast majority of Republicans would as well. Contrary to Democratic party talking point most Republicans aren't motivated by extreme racism or sexism. So I don't think Jim's ideas of what the right wing should have much baring especially since he has different goals than the vast majority of conservatives and his preferred solutions seem to be more because he likes solutions. I've skimmed through his blog and he has several failed predications (mostly about Ukraine) without an attempt to recalibrate, and just seems like a crank. he wants to restore civilization but is method for doing so is take over society and kill everyone I don't like which is what every barbarian everywhere does. He hates everyone everyone is wrong except Jim I wish he would at least have the decency to found a fringe political party which is what the extreme leftists who also, want to kill everyone that disagrees with them and force people to do the "right" things do. But as far as I can tell he's entirely alone and thus doesn't have to deal with other humans. For someone who wants a society heavily based on Christianity does he even go to church?
Also the way he talks about women makes me pretty uncomfortable I honestly just get the vibe he hates them. Not just because of wanting to reduce them to chattel (though also that) But I've never read so much talk of "wet pussy" in my life including in relation to pubescent children and Disney movies. It just seems incredibly vulgar for someone who wants to return use to traditional chaste society and no pious Christian man I know would talk like that.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
And of course, the very idea that individuals may have innate differences that cannot be attributed to their environment is utter anathema to Marxist orthodoxy—
This is a common point I see repeated about Communism, but in practice it's more promoted by liberals and Western Marxists then actual Communist regimes. Both the Soviet and Chinese education system are hugely based around finding talented students and elevating them through intense educations. The actual implementation of blank slate equity type programs and elimination of gifted tracks is an oddity of Western capitalist countries neither the Soviets or Chinese ever attempted to put anything like that into practice. And the leaders of both were willing to make statements about people groups that would make most Western leaders faint.
Your absolutely right that the Chinese and especially Xi Jinping are true believers in Marxism but it's a syncretized and Sinicized, Marxism full of Han chauvinism. Very few Chinese ascribe to blank slate ideology and I don't think the government particularly cares about promoting it or even subscribes to it themselves. I feel like trying to predict the CCP based on "Orthodox Marxism" Is like trying to predict the behavior of Evangelicals based on the Catechism Catholic Church, you might get some hits but it's not a useful way to go about it. For example the CCP is comfortable not suppressing theories about Chinese being a separate race of humans descended from a different ancestor, while these theories are not mainstream they aren't taboo either. The PRC is a national project for Chinese and nationalism and pride in China are off the charts, it's not a self hating liberal western country but neither is it a post national experiment like the Soviet Union. The CCP is out to benefit Chinese and justifies it's rule as a meritocratic rule of experts.
I agree the CCP reaction will be interesting and they may very well be hard against all this, but if they are it's not going to be against based on a slaveish adherence to blank state theories that they don't subscribe to and their entire society is organized in opposition to.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
Yes I agree 100%. But in this aspect tattoos are like clothes. It's not tattoos in themselves that are bad news in terms of social signaling but the type of tattoos.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
I judge anti tattoo posts online more harshly then actual tattoos IRL. My initial snap emotional judgement is that online anti tattoo stigma is the province of, "timid men“. I feel like there's a reason here and reddit both hate tattoos and sometimes look down drinking. It's the original virgin chad meme where Chad is comfortable and chill and the virgin is uncomfortable in his own skin. IRL most people under 50 that I know with these opinions on tattoos tend to be coming from a position of fear and inability to hang with the boyz rather than solid judgment. Online I can't help but feel this is more so, when I see an anti-tattoo post here or on reddit my strong initial snap judgement is it's written by a timid man who is uncomfortable with masculinity.
As for tattoos themselves in the Portland area it matters a lot what kind of tattoos you have. I am not saying I don't judge tattoos but a hipster girl with arty tattoos is entirely different than a girls with a tattoo of her baby daddies name or Jesus saves. There are tattoos and tattoos but trying to exclude all tattoos in Portland is gonna make you go insane. In Western culture tattoos are totally mainstream these days.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
Do you really think shoving all the gays back in the closet and teaching masturbation is evil will fix everything? I get that's low hanging fruit but that's what a return to Christianity also implies, the wages of sin are death. If so what do you actually think we should do about the gays? I feel like we have enough Scientific and psychological knowledge about them and their are millions of them just in the US so what are we gonna do? I think that a quiet return to Christianity works a lot better when you have secular society for your gay sons to fade into
In addition to mindfulness centering outside oneself distrust of materialism and all that good stuff. It seems a some sort of neo-Confucian philosophy without the anachronistic rules of Christianity would work much better. Of course if you believe Christianity is true well than that's that. But every religion says the same thing about it. A Muslim might say the same you just haven't come back to God yet. Actually that's why English speaking Muslims tend to call converts reverts. They've finally abandoned the sinful world and returned to the true faith.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
Yeah the nones are tricky. I still suspect they are a psyop by the liberals to raise the number of secular people but I nevertheless think they are a useful category. Someone who will tick the box Christian when given the choice between Christian and Atheist but none when that is presented is definitely not a standard believer but neither are they a capital A secular Atheist as the term is. I feel most "disorganized religious practice" is too disparate and ironically disorganized to accurately measure via polling and statistics without something like in depth interviews.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
Well white is honestly probably the hardest as they don't tolerate autists very well. East Asians in Asia are pretty tolerant of Autism well as much as can be said for anyone (IDK about Japan with their insane etiquette situation. You could probably find a nice Vietnamese girl in a year or two if you went there.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
Yes I agree with all that. I probably should have been more specific. I just meant that a lot of the talk of teenage brides is not actually trad for Northern Europe.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
Most Western Democracies aren't electing either far left or far right extremists mostly the policies stay the same. Wasn't Biden a steady moderate elected by a skittish electorate? It didn't seem to have much effect even if he wasn't demonized the way Trump or Obama were.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
Are those women not settling down leaving a number of men who want to? Or are they just part of the urbanite endless casual dating scene?
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
I've wondered about this. I'm not sure if I'll live long enough to see the whole effects. Even post 1965 homosexuality only became fully normalized like 15 years ago.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
Look a single dude straight in the eye and say "Yeah she's banged 6-12 dudes prior to you, but I'm sure that she won't ever be thinking about any of them or comparing your performance and YOU'RE the one she's going to stick with" with a straight face.
Ok but this is entirely normal in Western culture and has been since like the 70s so about 50 years now. And it's not just her that's expected to have 6-12 previous partners it's you as well. If you don't well that's probably part of it but the vast majority of men in modern Western society would not be at all phased by a body count of 6 and thinking they would be shows you as an extreme outlier. I realize modern Western culture is also an extreme outlier but nevertheless that's the culture you live in.
Now it's actually not that hard to marry a virgin in the US you just need to sincerely convert to one of the dozens of conservative religious denominations that enforce this many of which have more women than men. The other way is to ingratiate yourself into a more conservative nonwestern culture and try for marriage there. But acting like a body count of 6 is some damning thing when that is what is culturally expected of modern secular women is not going to get you very far. Modern secular women and men are expected to have several previous relationships and flings from high school and college that's the cultural expected norm. It's totally fair to not like that but understand you are like a Saudi woman searching for a sensitive feminist hipster plenty of those exist but you are going to have to go out of your cultural comfort zone to find them.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
Serious question. Would ever consider an arranged marriage in India or dating a Filipina overseas, in order to find a match?
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
I appreciate this post. Too many people view the past as something like Saudi Arabia and don't realize how much freedom and independence women had in Northern Europe historically or how late the marriage ages were there. Settling down in your 30s was just what sensible middle class people did to have a good life. Just like going to university or putting money into a 401k today. At least in Northern Europe it wasn't girls getting married at 15 to much older men.
That list is basically for dating middle class girls off the apps. Become a line cook and you'll see plenty of the bottom 50% get laid and have the chance to date working class girls yourself lol. Marriage hasn't collapsed for the bottom 50% because they can't get laid but because they don't participate in any social institution these days. Ala the Fishtown of Bowling Alone. I feel like this whole world is invisible to the programmers and engineers on the Motte chasing girlbosses on the apps.
It's not a problem that can be fixed with self improvement. But it's a pretty easy problem to solve, for any non-obese, non-insane, white guy 45 and under, just outsource. Open FilipinaCupid.com or go study some bullshit continuing education course in Manila and you'll have dozens of eligible pretty slim women falling over you. Yes there will be pure gold diggers and green card hunters but also don't discount the natural attraction being wealthy and high status induces is women.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
Not Western Buddhism as practiced in America no it isn't. Scripture will only get you so far, Paul discourages marriage in his letters yet to say American Christianity is against marriage and procreation would be foolish. Not all Christian denominations were against Gay marriage in the culture war either but the overwhelming perspective of secularish young people is that Christianity has a lot of nonsensical rules about sex and Buddhism doesn't. I don't think Buddhism is going to hugely boom up. But it's definitely an advantage as you get a lot less pushback being a Buddhist in certain circles than a Christian and it's easier to syncretize with modern progressive values.
Yes Evangelical churches are growing in a large part because they are scooping up converts from the collapsing mainline denominations. Religion as whole in the US is still declining, but the Evangelicals do present an interesting data point as the rest of US mirrors the secularization of Europe and Evangelicals don't It's possible that the Evangelicals stop the tide or even reverse it. My guess is they'll hold steady they have a high fertility rate but a high defection rate of the youth and secular culture has a strong pull. They are also massively less influential than they were in the 80s and 00s and they'd have to work pretty hard to get that power back.
Yes you aren't now, but if current trends hold (always a big if) TradCaths are going to be so wildy out of step with society morally and socially that I expect the gap to widen. In 200 years I don't see the West being more sexually conservative given that we've been liberalizing since the enlightenment. There's a lot of stuff grandfathered in but when todays Zoomers are grandparents I think it will be a lot harder for practicing Catholics to mesh into society.
MayorofOysterville
1mo ago
Only if they can hold enough of those kids. Mainstream religion is collapsing in America. On a long enough timeline that might lead to a society of tradcaths and Hasidics. But at the moment those are niche communities. The "mainstream" religious don't appear to be sustainable.
Yes and I'm not arguing that's not a problem. There's a chance if we don't make our society pronatal we'll devolve back into the mud. However, it's less women not having kids and more women having a few kids.
Also you can insulate yourself from divorce pretty well if you too know what your doing. Marry after 27 and both have a college degree and divorce is somewhere around 15-20% You can insulate yourself from "divorce rape" by marrying a woman who works. It's not half your money if you earn about the same.
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