OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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User ID: 359
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
7hr ago
I understand - double agents often make the ultimate sacrifice.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
7hr ago
I worship Truth. If your God is not Truth, then I do not worship him. Fortunately, Jesus said "I am... the Truth," so I'm happily a Christian.
That's you putting your definition of God above God himself.
What is God to you? I still don't understand. What differentiates him from another human being?
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
7hr ago
For those not in the know, the above two users have revealed themselves to be Tumblr users. By saying I recognize this, I am also revealing myself to have logged into Tumblr in the past year. I hope you all appreciate the sacrifice I made to explain the joke.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
9hr ago
You said "'the Ten Commandments were really our best guess at moral laws but we are not really the basis for goodness.
Yeah, you didn't really read this accurately. It the "we are not really the basis for goodness."
This doesn't mean God is "subject" to 2+2=4, or that it's an "outside standard he's held to", and it's utterly nonsensical to think, even if it were a standard he were held to, that one should therefore worship 2+2=4 instead. The law that 2+2=4 isn't written anywhere, it's not even necessarily a "law" at all; it's just how reality is.
Yes, God is subject to 2+2=4 here in this example. You don't see it? It's possible for God to want something other than 2+2=4 but not be able to change it. That makes Him subject to it. It's an external power He has to work around. "Just how reality is," - That is putting limits on God. There is something outside of your concept of God that is more powerful than Him. Why not worship that thing?
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
12hr ago
The appeal to me is that it's true. I haven't chosen my opinions based on which ideas I liked most.
Fortunately, it's not true and I have all the proof I need of that. However, if it were true I should just commit suicide and get it over with. Maybe that's extreme, the point is I would need to reevaluate quite a lot.
You really don't get it. Your question is, "What if I rip all the significance out of the world? Would you still call someone by their chosen name?" And the answer is, "Why on Earth do you think a name matters?"
\3. If morality doesn't inherently proceed from God, then God cannot possibly have a perfect understanding of morality
This is not the objection. The objection is, if morality is outside of God, then God is held to an outside standard. There is something outside God which is sovereign to God. In which case, cut out the middle man. Also, God can now be evil. If He can't then He's not free. If He can be evil, then following Him unreservedly is unwise.
Also, He could be lying to us about morality. A classical understanding of God provides the necessary background for something that "Cannot deceive nor be deceived." Take that away and we open up both doors.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
15hr ago
This is why I opened with the question I did--if God himself were to tell you your definition of him is wrong, would you believe him? Or does your definition take precedence over his own words?
I think we have fundamental differences here but I am going to try my best to explain it.
I fully expect that my understanding of God is limited, inaccurate in some ways, etc. My current theological opinion of Divine Middle Knowledge, for example, and its implications on Free Will and creating souls destined for Hell, is currently permitted. But I wouldn't be particularly surprised if it was wrong and eventually declared heretical. If God through His Catholic Church forbade my current theological opinion, I would swiftly change course.
But if Jesus were to show up to me, prove to me that he's Jesus, then say something like, "Actually, what you call "God" in the Bible isn't transcendental at all. We're pretty powerful, but don't actually have the ability to create matter out of nothing, we are not actively sustaining your being, the Ten Commandments were really our best guess at moral laws but we are not really the basis for goodness. The universe has always existed and we never figured out why. We're just playing around in it. I'm offering you a good afterlife, at great personal cost to myself, so you should do what I say..."
That sounds really sketchy and dissatisfying. What would be the difference between this God and a powerful alien? If your conception of God is one that a sufficiently bored and long-lived alien species could imitate, then I really don't understand what the appeal of religion is to you.
Ok, but there are some humans who are more powerful than you, there are some humans who are more good than you, there are some humans who know more than you. Do you worship them in this capacity? Is being stronger, smarter, and nicer than a human what distinguishes God to you above, say, your mom?
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