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PyotrVerkhovensky


				

				

				

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joined 2023 February 04 14:30:54 UTC
				

				

				

				

				

				

					
				

				

				
				
				

				
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PyotrVerkhovensky


								

								

								
								
								

								
							
					
 
				


				

				
				
				

				

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					joined 2023 February 04 14:30:54 UTC
				


				
					

					
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				Converting to Catholicism
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Making a formal dogmatic declaration is significant. I heard someone speculate that the timing existed to preserve veneration of Mary against a Protestant world that was increasingly dismissive of her. Meaning, without these formal dogmatic declarations, Protestants might have converted into Catholicism without gaining respect for her, bringing in their own "the mother of our Lord is just a woman," attitudes and eventually reducing Catholic devotion to her.




Indeed, what I would have been like would I have become Catholic in the 1800s :).




There are no external constraints on God. I think you are assuming here that Logic and God are different essences, and God's being is constrained by Logic. But instead, Logic is God's unchanging will. Logic is what it is because of God's Being being what it is.




Pretty sure I said the exact opposite (and in agreement with you)?


"Barron seems to be hinting that God could not "make a triangle a square", that is, that God is constrained by logical impossibilities. But this is such a small view of God. God creates our minds and universe. Our minds invent or discover things like logic, or define things like squares or circles. Whether spawned by our intellect or embedded in the structure of the cosmos, these concepts (including logic!) are part of Creation itself. God created the conditions under which we can model physical reality with math, structure, and logic. Logic is a model. Logos is Truth. Logic is created. Logos is the Creator."


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
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I don't think there was a single reason.  She felt led towards it.  The closer she got to Catholicism the closer she felt to God.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
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There could be an atheistic/evolutionary explanation for why we have disgust at certain outcomes or behaviors.  But I don't think the atheist could self-consistently apply moral weight or language to that disgust. Yet we still see (many) atheists use the language of justice and morality and often reveal a belief in it through their behavior.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
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Reformed theology is going to have a very different emphasis on predestination.




I think those outside Reformed theology put more emphasis on Reformed theology's supposed preoccupation with predestination than Calvinist's do :) (Many such cases).


I have extended family that go beyond "mere" five-point Calvinism and say that there is no point in evangelism due to predestination...and even they rarely bring it up.  They certainly act in this world as if they had agency!




A list of books by Pope Benedict XVI might be a starting point as well.




Thank you, I'll take a look at these.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
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If anything I hope it’s true. If it isn’t, I lose nothing, if it is, I gain everything; if nothing else, it’s a good ideal to live toward.




On the contrary, "And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable."


I'm also reminded of Shatov in Dostoevsky's Demons:


"I believe in Russia. ... I believe in her orthodoxy. ... I believe in the body of Christ. ... ".


"And in God? In God?"


"I … I will believe in God!"


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
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Khaled Anatolios is, I believe, Orthodox :).  There is much to like about Orthodoxy.  I like how slow it is to move (if at all!) and I like the national flavor of the Orthodox churches, which I think is a much better practical model than the Roman model.  However, while both Catholicism and Protestantism have rich histories of missionary work in obedience to the Great Commission, I feel like the Orthodox church has become insular and introspective rather than evangelistic.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
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The problem of evil is a thorn in the side of modern Christianity. A benevolent God would never allow something like childhood brain cancer; there are obviously better ways to test the sons of men than to inflict a random child with maximum pain before they have the cognitive capacity to understand what’s going on.




"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the Lord. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."


"Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; Blessed be the name of the Lord."




Jesus affirms the accuracy of human moral intuition. His parables compare the reasoning of God to the reasoning of man. His sayings are based on a sensible person’s intuition.




I don't consider the human desire for justice to be wrong in and of itself, but it certainly has been fouled and corrupted.  Our intuitions may be emotionally "correct" without the object of that emotion being "correct".  Eros is not sinful, but Eros outside of Man and Woman united before God is.




I am also partial to my explanation because it elevates evil to a near-Godlike power, which… it is. Why else would Christ be waging a war in the heavenly realms unless it was? Why would his death be needed unless it was? Why else would He call it the ruler of the world? And I think our era needs to see evil as an insanely powerful ruler over the world — this is also conducive to wellbeing.




I appreciate your conception of Evil as being a true/near-equal antagonist (though I don't agree with it).  I do think (as hopefully can be seen from my other comments) that we need to take Evil/Satan/Sin more seriously.




The endless speculation and articulating just empties the Cross of its power.




Up to a point, I agree. "Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies".


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
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Thank you for your thoughtful response, it gives me more to think about.


I agree that the History in general (and the Biblical narrative in particular) is part of a cosmic drama.  I think Reformed types can often get lost in the "logic" of religion rather than appreciating the beauty of the story.  If Jesus was "Calvinist" (in method if not theology) he wouldn't have spent much time on parables!  God sharing in suffering humanity is part of this beautiful story, though as you mention there is a tendency among liberal theologians to make this "identification" the means of atonement (God understands us, and thus forgives us...a very narrow view of God's omnipotence and a very low view of sin).


As an aside, I've never heard any Protestant of any denomination say that Michael is Christ; it is certainly not the understanding that I grew up with.  However, I did grow up in an environment where Satan rarely mentioned, and if he was it was almost in embarrassment.  He played his part in the temptation of Adam and the mirror in the temptation of Jesus (and pre-millennial, pre-trib, dispensationalist types believed that Satan would be unleashed in the end times), but otherwise holds little place in the story.