PyotrVerkhovensky
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User ID: 2154
PyotrVerkhovensky
1d ago
Thank you for the recommendation, yes I need to read that. I have a long list of books to get through.
I've heard some proponents of vicarious soteriology essentially describe Jesus as God's "lived experience", where he is forced to admit that actually being human is kind of hard and he'll just forget our rebellion in light of that. It is almost eye-rollingly trite.
I do think that it is very compelling and comforting (though not salvific) that Jesus suffered and was tempted in every way as we are. We have an advocate who does understand, to his very core, what it means to be human.
PyotrVerkhovensky
1d ago
On your bullet on sacrifices and scapegoats, Rillera argues against sin sacrifices being morally atoning, but merely ritually atoning/purifying. And he calls the "scapegoat" a "tote goat" since it carries the sins away from the people but isn't actually imbued with the sin.
I'm not a sufficient OT scholar to say how legitimate Rillera's arguments are in this case.
PyotrVerkhovensky
2d ago
From what I can tell there are a number of variations to ransom theory. The "Christus Victor" version says it was paid to the devil, who had rightful "ownership" of humanity due to our sin. Jesus was exchanged (not substituted!) for humanity in Gethsemene. The devil now had "rights" over Jesus, and brutally killed him. But by killing the sinless Jesus, who did not deserve death, the devil overstepped his "mandate" and Jesus arose victorious over death, sin, and the devil. I think some of the versions of this theory go too far (eg, the idea that God "tricked" the devil, which if I recall even some Church Fathers believed), but I like that there is a meaningful role for the devil in this narrative. In PSA the devil is an afterthought; the only participants are humanity and God.
"There is another theory which states that this has already happened"
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