Tarnstellung
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User ID: 553
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
If a trans person was not notable before transitioning, their former name is of no interest to the public and there is no reason to include it, and a good reason – namely, courtesy – to exclude it. Note that the fact that they are trans is allowed to be included, since that is clearly of interest to the public.
In fact, Wikipedia is pretty consistent on this. The same courtesy is extended to, for example, the streamer Jerma985 whose real name you won't find anywhere in his article. It formerly contained a fake real name, which he presents as his real name, presumably to protect his privacy, but even that has now been removed.
This isn't the only instance of Wikipedia being courteous with respect to non-notable people or things people did before they became notable. One Wikipedia policy says:
Someone who does not wish to be the subject of a [biography article] may nominate it for deletion (...) Unless the subject clearly passes the general notability guideline (GNG) or is a current or former elected or appointed official, editors should seriously consider honoring such requests. Factors weighing in favor of deletion include a problematic article history, real-world harms identified by the subject, and the subject being only minimally notable or notable for only one event.
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
Yes, needlessly pissing off conservatives for zero benefit is a favourite pastime of the modern LGBT movement. See also: drag queen story hour. I would also add trans people in prisons and sports, though those are more a case of benefits existing but not outweighing the costs, as opposed to drag queen story hour and your proposed discussion of homosexuality in sex ed, where the benefits are not close, but exactly equal to, zero.
The downvotes may be from people who want conservatives to be pissed off because it makes it easier for them to win. An LGBT movement that picks its battles better would certainly accomplish more.
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
How did the Boriswave happen? Did the government not realize the new immigration policy would increase immigration? Did they not notice the increase as it was happening? Did they not realize the increase would be politically unpopular? The last one seems particularly unlikely. Johnson is a skilled politician – he did win a general election, after all – so he surely wouldn't make such a mistake.
What about Truss and Sunak? I guess the former didn't have much time to implement policy changes, but the latter had two years, so all the same questions apply to him.
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
What kind of accountability do you expect? She had no way of knowing. Unless you assume all gay men are paedophiles, which is blatantly false. Nearly all children raised by gay couples experience no sexual abuse. These cases are vanishingly rare.
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
Gay men are degenerate sex fiends, but that's because they're men, not because they're gay. Straight men would be elated to have as much sex as gay men are having; they are prevented from doing so by women, who are generally much less interested in sex.
(Obviously not all gay men, not all straight men, not all women. But you get the point.)
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
How would you have done it?
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
Related, I object to completely censoring homosexuality from children any more than heterosexuality: that means at minimum, they should be told in sex-ed that it exists and it's normal for some people to feel it.
What does this accomplish? If they're gay, they'll figure it out, as gay people have been figuring out for all of history. They don't need to be told. Especially in 2026.
The political cost of this immense, as it pisses of conservatives, and it accomplishes nothing.
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
It's a blinded trial. It was necessary to test whether you were actually clocking trans women or just making up tells because you already knew they were trans.
It just occurred to me that I could have done a similar experiment by presenting you with photos of several cis women and one trans woman. But that hadn't occurred to me at the time. Sorry.
I'd still like to hear your opinion on Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović.
Okay, I was lying and she is a random cis woman I found online. Congrats, you can perfectly distinguish trans women from cis women.
Can you tell Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović is cis? I was going to go with her because she legitimately looks like she might be trans, but she has a Wikipedia article which would have told you she was not trans.
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
She was well known in Russia and did interviews about her experience. Are you seriously relying on ChatGPT? Does she pass so well that it made you suspect she might actually be cis?
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
The harm would be from knowing that there are people out there looking at, and pleasuring themselves to, images or videos of you being abused.
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
I've seen her on Russian TV and talk shows and I don't think those recordings were edited.
Here are photos from the Daily Mail. I don't think they edit photos to make people look better.
You can see next to a man she looks noticeably shorter (because she started hormones early and didn't go through male puberty), which would have a major effect in person. Many trans women don't pass due to height.
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
I've seen her on Russian TV and talk shows and I don't think those recordings were edited.
Here are photos from the Daily Mail. I don't think they edit photos to make people look better.
You can see next to a man she looks noticeably shorter (because she started hormones early and didn't go through male puberty), which would have a major effect in person. Many trans women don't pass due to height.
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
I haven't. What would motivate parents to do that?
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
A filter doesn't change shoulder or jaw width or whatever people are clocking. It can improve skin texture a bit.
Have you had a look at her Instagram? Or her photos on Google?
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
Have you ever seen boys dressed like girls with girls' hairstyles or girls dressed like boys with boys' hairstyles?
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
Korkunova. I conceded that Petras doesn't pass perfectly.
Yes but – are you telling me you can't tell a boy and a girl apart unless they have breasts? Six-year-old boys and girls look like an androgynous mass to you?
Hairstyle and clothing is a major confounding factor. If a six-year-old boy and girl had the exact same hairstyle and outfit – which never happens because there are clearly defined boy and girl styles – do you think you could tell them apart? How?
This is clearly a heavily filtered and colour-corrected photo, and Korkunova is wearing a baggy sweater which hides the breadth of their shoulders.
You can look her up to find more photos. Or look at her Instagram (apparently she's in Paris, which is good to hear).
Edit: Just saw your edit. Are you honestly telling me, after looking at various photos of her, that she looks like a man or like she used to be a man?
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
Very confused by the claim that it's impossible to distinguish male and female people until after they've gone through puberty.
Secondary sexual characteristics don't develop until puberty.
Afraid not, clocked them instantly.
I would say it depends on the photo. Sometimes her jaw seems unusually broad, sometimes she passes perfectly. You have to admit in many photos she passes.
How about Diana Korkunova? She was well-known in Russia for being openly trans years ago, though Putin outlawed being trans recently so I don't know what's going on with her right now.
Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed.
With all due respect, I don't think you're quite as well-informed about this topic as you think you are.
My claim that:
The average trans woman who transitions late is weaker than the average cis man, though I don't know if she's as weak as a cis woman.
is consistent with that. I never specified how much weaker she is than the average cis men, though for the sake of honesty, I will say I expected the difference to be greater. Note also that your study (have you read or skimmed the whole thing or just the abstract?) notes that the muscle mass continues decreasing after one year.
The study does not address my claim that:
The average trans woman who transitions early is as weak as a cis woman.
In fact, they note:
Tack et al. [72] was not included in the table since some of the participants had not completed full puberty at treatment initiation.
Meaning they believe the conclusion would have been different if the participants had started their transitions earlier.
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
You don't consider any of these people creepy? Or how about some of these.
The average trans person is not creepy. There are cis women who commit all sorts of crime, too, including sexual assault of women.
I would love to see one of these trans-identified males who is visually indistingushable from an actual woman I keep hearing so much about.
Kim Petras? She started hormones at 12, so she never went through male puberty that would give her masculine features.
Because, being physically weaker, female people are vastly more vulnerable to rape and sexual assault than male people.
Testosterone blockers and estrogen decrease muscle mass, and, if started at an early age, prevent masculine bone structure. The average trans woman who transitions late is weaker than the average cis man, though I don't know if she's as weak as a cis woman. The average trans woman who transitions early is as weak as a cis woman.
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
Because trans women are not men, creepy or otherwise. I want to prevent men from looking at them, too. They'll have breasts, and many men will find them interesting to look at even if they have a penis, and some don't even have a penis and are visually indistinguishable from cis women. Why do you only care about cis women's privacy?
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
By "original poster", I meant @SnapDragon who is not trans.
Frankly, I doubt it's ever going to be relevant since I've known a trans man and they were fooling nobody.
And there are trans men out there who do pass. What about them?
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
This is fundamentally just a really bad way to judge whether a treatment works, one that we rightly dismiss for other treatments. There are also countless anecdotal reports of people who recover from cancer after faith-healing. And unlike spontaneous remission of cancer, which is rare, regression to the mean in mental health is the norm. "My mental health got so bad that I sought out X treatment, after which I got better" is the default result.
It's not just mental health being vaguely "bad". It's a specific condition, gender dysphoria, that is directly alleviated by altering the person's body.
"The trial doesn't look good but maybe it works in a subgroup" is the sort of dubious cope you see all the time. At least the p-hackers saying "efficacy was shown in middle-aged hispanic women" have some sort of evidence, saying "okay but assuming the treatment works we just need to do a better job of diagnosing the people it'll work on" is even worse.
I've long thought gender dysphoria was overdiagnosed, so this isn't a "cope" I came up with on the spot.
Because it calls into doubt both the advisability of the current standard of care and the theoretical framework the treatment is based on.
Indeed it does, but it does not imply that no one benefits from transitioning.
Tarnstellung
4mo ago
Nearly every major company, from banks to tech giants to consumer brands, performs the annual pride month ritual of slapping the rainbow flag on their social media, homepages, and marketing. Pro-LGBT content is ambient, institutionally enforced, and aggressively pushed into the public square whether you’re looking for it or not. Just try offering the mildest pushback, “I don’t care about this, keep it in your bedroom, I don’t want it in my face constantly”, and brace yourself for a barrage of HR scare words.
So just ignore it? You claimed you were being forced to actively participate. Now you're down to "it exists and and I am aware of it".
As for Brokeback Mountain, let's say it bombed. The entire cultural apparatus would have blamed “bigoted audiences” for failing to show up enthusiastically enough for this raw emotional (homosexual) experience, and the failure would be clear proof that society is still full of deplorables who need re-education.
Now you're just making things up.
If a trans person was not notable before transitioning, their former name is of no interest to the public and there is no reason to include it, and a good reason – namely, courtesy – to exclude it. Note that the fact that they are trans is allowed to be included, since that is clearly of interest to the public.
In fact, Wikipedia is pretty consistent on this. The same courtesy is extended to, for example, the streamer Jerma985 whose real name you won't find anywhere in his article. It formerly contained a fake real name, which he presents as his real name, presumably to protect his privacy, but even that has now been removed.
This isn't the only instance of Wikipedia being courteous with respect to non-notable people or things people did before they became notable. One Wikipedia policy says (emphasis mine):
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