This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I think HBD is glaringly obvious and true, that's probably the biggest redpill I've swallowed since growing up.
I personally wish for us to do something about it. While I'm not outright against drastic measures like sterilization of the retarded, I think there are simply kinder and more broadly palatable options sitting there on the table and that Western society simply ignores by sticking it's head up its own arse.
HBD is a fact, what policy ramifications it entails is a statement about your priorities rather than about HBD. Some find it to be in violation of their heartfelt belief in fundamental equality, and being idiots, choose to ignore reality instead of reassessing their beliefs. Others leap up at the opportunity to be xenophobic, to expel the unsightly other given that they have a mildly defensible pretext for it.
Personally, I think the only lasting solution to the issue of HBD is going full steam ahead on genetic engineering or other forms of cognitive enhancement. It's a silly artifact of evolution that the color of one's skin should have anything to do with one's intelligence, and we should be uplifting everyone to be the very best they possibly can be, and where it's too late for somatic improvements, at least offer them the option of making sure their kids get dealt a better hand.
Leaving aside that there are a bazillion other excellent reasons to do the above other than HBD, it's a no brainer, and it fundamentally disappoints me that civilization as a whole fell prey to absurd taboos. We're leaving trillion dollar notes on the floor and then covering them up with our dung.
I'm not even calling for the establishment of a race of Ubermensch, I want everyone raised up to as close to equality as possible, but I don't want to rely on frankly stupid and unproductive endeavors like trying to spend billions more on educating the uneducatable.
Or at the very least, the US should realize that if they're in a hole, they ought to stop digging, or throwing trillions more into the money burning pit to absolutely no avail.
I haven't given much thought to the idea, but I would probably be against mass involuntary sterilization of people with undesirable characteristics. A method of implementing eugenics which I find far more defensible, and I think many people would agree with me, would be to sterilize criminals. There is a lot of overlap between criminals and people who a eugenicist would want to prevent from reproducing. Objections that it's involuntary are inapplicable, because we already do horrible things to criminals like imprisoning them, or even, depending on time and place, executing them. You could frame it as just another punishment, or to prevent children being raised in abusive households, etc., without publicizing the eugenic effects.
In America, Black people would of course be disproportionately affected by this, which would upset some on the left, but it would also mean that the difference between Blacks and Whites would narrow over time. (And Whites would be affected more than Asians, and so on. All the racial differences would narrow.)
If this had been implemented, say, two generations ago, in the 1970s, we would already be seeing huge results. As is, however, it seems kind of pointless because by the time we start seeing results, genetic engineering will likely already be widespread.
The objection to that plan is that most criminals have already reproduced by the time they’re convicted, isn’t it?
More options
Context Copy link
You'd need to get them early. Offer vasectomies as the diversion program for first-time violent offenders, or accept nominations into the program from their high schools or truant officers.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link