ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
No bio...
User ID: 822
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
12hr ago
Why would having sexual intercourse in general be the equivalent of shooting to kill?
No, the purpose of having proper sexual intercourse (i.e. using your genitals "properly, for their intended use") is the equivalent here. Not just sexual intercourse in general in the "mutual masturbation" sense, which is as suspect (smuggled assumption: sinful?) as "using a gun only for target practice" is to certain other people.
Again, genitals (as with guns) can be used for pair bonding and pleasure, it's just that that's not their telos/"what they're meant for".
Your metaphor is subtly broken, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
Using a gun for a reason other than to shoot ballistic missiles is suspect, because that's not what it's there for.
No, by that logic, it's "using/having a gun for a reason other than shooting to kill [its primary purpose] is suspect" (so 'I'm just here to shoot targets because it's fun' is immoral and weird).
Thus, by that same logic,
Sexual intercourse can be done for making babies and for pair bonding and pleasure (for example, post menopause or when the woman is already pregnant.)
"having sex for pair bonding and pleasure" is suspect.
Which is the Catholic position on sex.
It appeals to people who are given to being addicted to seeking sex, and Catholic Christianity treats everyone (both men and women, but the emphasis is traditionally more on men) as being in this condition by default. It makes sense that Catholicism draws in people that are aware they have problems with sex in this way, hence the assertion everyone does and that it's Godly for you to behave as if you were addicted to sex at all times[2].
Other denominations of Christianity, in particular the more Charismatic strains, treat dancing and alcohol/other drugs this way as well. Catholicism has a more measured response to the latter, but not for sex.
[1] Which forms one of the two prongs of the stereotypical Blue viewpoint on guns. They can't just be telling the truth, it has to be for some nefarious purpose. You'll recognize that rejecting that's true is also the [classical] liberal refutation of the Christian party line on the gays (and on those readings of 'fornication' and 'sexual morality' more generally).
It's more like a kind of mutual masturbation
[2] And if you're one of those men who tends to treat their partners like a human fleshlight during sex, then the smuggled assumption of "and that's bad" becomes trivially correct. Some (many?) men legitimately do have problems with this [source: I read the posts here], and when they do, following that rule is probably better for both them and their wives (and it forces them to have buy-in to the relationship through childbirth).
Of course, there's another answer in "well, just don't do sex that way lol" (and this approach is hinted at in a few other Pauline letters), but having "don't be fucking stupid lol" as the rule is about as effective as abstinence-based sex ed is at avoiding pregnancy for most people who [spiritually] require the structure of Catholicism in the first place, so...
Well, you can have that, or you have the traditionalist/progressive projects which are just unironic rewrites of Harrison Bergeron (the only difference between the two is the hair color and name of the antagonist).
(And that story itself is basically just a modernization of Cain's justification for killing Abel.)
But man I wish we had more liberals/libertarians posting here.
Sure, but most of us aren't filtering that through 7000 levels of irony and then getting butthurt about it being perceived as pointlessly-hostile nonsense.
The problem is that [too much acknowledgement of] HBD is just as destructive to classical liberalism as it is to progressivism for reasons that should be obvious- once you start treating HBD as prescriptive rather than descriptive then there's no reason to be anything but a hardcore turbo-trad. If your political philosophy suggests society should maximize its "gain" from realizing HBD is true and immediately go full Apartheid, then you prevent those with [the characteristic that predicts poor performance] but perform well anyway from properly developing[1].
This is OK for traditionalist societies in which one Knows Their Place(tm)[2], but there's only one way to compromise such that differences are sanded down over time, and that's by giving them more freedom then their characteristics suggest in the chance that, when members of that group beat the average, we enable both a eugenic effect and more effective suggestion that the HBD-disadvantaged group better assimilates. (Whether those things have worked is an exercise for the reader- I assert that they have, that what is left at the bottom probably can't be fixed, and that it is unfortunate that they look that way but our ruthless market system will pay them what they're worth backstopped by our infinite greed above all other moral principles.)
Since the entire conceit of liberalism is that good performers who are worthy of unrestricted freedom shouldn't be held back by bad performers who are not[3] (and those negative consequences of excess freedom correctly fall on the virtueless, which is the fundamental problem trads and progs have with liberalism since charity for those people isn't mandated), we can understand it, but we can't really do anything about it other than offer our velvet glove before we give 'em the iron fist.
That does mean HBD predicts those most likely to get the iron fist are going to be [characteristic predicting poor performance], which means we can have the potential blind spot of confusing [characteristic predicting poor performance] with [poor performance], and the fact we know that means we're vulnerable to the bad-faith rent-seeking my outgroup defines itself by having the right to do because Muh Oppression or whatever.
[1] And now you know why otherwise high-potential modern teenagers and early twentysomethings are so fucked up- arresting development like this has serious group-level long-term consequences, but we pretend it's OK because "at least it's not HBD".
[2] Knowing One's Place is not unique to Traditionalists; after all, Progressives have the same stack vocabulary, they just put themselves on top of it axiomatically, where with the Traditionalists they at least have the notion (albeit as unenforceable as the liberal claim that charity will fix the problems) that those on top are to perform like they're at the top.
[3] And note that liberalism doesn't inherently conflict with HBD categories from being imposed; you can still have a liberal slave-owning society, or one with limited franchise for certain groups, and nearly every place with a tradition of liberalism has been this way at some point. This is another weakness liberals have to progressives, since progressives will argue using liberal aesthetic but will destroy all protections for high performers in the process if left unchecked.
But it somehow falls upon America to disentangle a conflict we have little to do with
lol, lmao even.
The US has been playing stupid games in that region for the 10-15 years preceding the war- they wanted that war, and they got it. And Trump is still responsible for it, given that the destabilization efforts continued under his administration; we can blame upper military brass for hiding shit all we want but at the end of the day it's still the responsibility of the guy at the top.
And we can discuss the fact the war had significant economic consequences for the Fourth Reich Germany, too- the US took their cheap natural gas away (it wasn't the Russians that blew it up) and now they get to experience a 1973-style price shock in manufacturing because they were too stupid to figure out how to frack for themselves.
It's unwise to meet NATO spending targets because every non-US nation in that alliance is very well aware that the way they actually pay for it is "the US does something that damages our economy, which causes our GDP to drop by about the same measure that it would if we were paying for our own defense". And paying for their own defense is something that grows the middle class, because the elites are forced to pay their own countrymen for it (this is the idea behind the military-industrial complex), which is why just taking the hit and allowing the US to break client economies is deemed acceptable in said client states.
And [as stated below] if the US is intending to bail out the middle class (which is why Trump II, a reformer, was ultimately elected over the arch-conservative Harris), amping up R&D in the military-industrial complex is the way to do it, because it forces the elites to take a step back from their current objectives of enclosure [no growth ever + environmentalism] and race war and actually start approving development projects for once.
So I think the appropriate question that Europe should be asking is "how much should Europeans allow the Americans to wreck the pan-European economy because they wanted to go to war with Russia for shits and giggles"? If I were Chancellor of the Fourth Reich, my protestations would be as loud as my contributions symbolic, and I'd only start making stuff the Americans might be directly dependent on if they go to war somewhere else... which is probably why their military-industrial policy is currently exactly that.
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
3d ago
But as an adult I'm wondering how on earth you'd clean and maintain such a system.
It is self-cleaning.
While it is inevitable that some dirt settles at seldom-used outlets (especially those at lower points in the plumbing run), that problem tends to solve itself as soon as you connect a hose to that port by consequence of what the system does. And since when you're vacuuming an entire floor you'll use (almost) every port at least once, the remediation for ports seldom-used is "connect the vacuum line and run the system briefly".
Additionally, the hose opening tends to be a smaller diameter than the vacuum lines. So if you suck up something absurd, like a plastic bag, if it'll fit through the hose, it'll fit through the lines just fine. It would be wise to leave a couple of access ports, though.
The only real fail points are:
- the central unit itself (generally quite reliable, it's just a nicer Shop-Vac- solution: replace unit if it burns out somehow, hookup is standard)
- the hose between the vacuum head and wall (generally, electrical outlets are installed right next to the vacuum ports so you can run the vacuum's power head; the cord for that is embedded in the hose and will degrade with use- solution: replace hose, they're all standard)
- the access ports (just a sufficiently-airtight door with 2 low-voltage electrical contacts, both properties can degrade over time; when you connect the hose, the circuit is bridged by the metal and the vacuum starts up- solution: replace door)
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
3d ago
As in, "whoa, you're telling me she hasn't had a job since college, AND she never leaves her room, AND she has severe social anxiety? Now that's what I'm talkin' about, I want that".
Translation: she's got a cute face, and while she might be a bit of a fixer-upper that's perfect for someone "gifted" with enough autism/slight sociopathy (which is why it's a 4chan thing) to obviate most of the things that [we believe] would make someone that anxious in the first place. There is an element of "might not be self-aware enough/self-doubting enough to not entirely know her full value/potential, so will be available at bargain-bin social prices", or perhaps a bit of a savior complex, but that's underwritten by the implicit co-operation you get from knowing that their actually leaving their room/inviting you into their room is the hardest step.
Could you imagine any woman saying "you know I really just want an [cute but] unemployed loser, that's what really gets me going"?
This is the cougar effect; women being sexually attracted to men with... uh, growth potential. It's kind of a trans-gender behavior (their occasional pursuit of illegally-young men is too- there's very little biological reason for them to take on that kind of risk, especially compared to men for whom that behavior is evolutionary-biologically imperative), though nobody will ever fully recognize it as such.
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
3d ago
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
3d ago
How, other than dropping shotguns?
More physical challenges. Practical shooting prior to this type of match (IPSC/USPSA, 3-gun/UML) demand more choreographed physical movements- you basically dance through the stages. Step here, shoot here, reload here, most accurate within the fastest time to last shot fired wins. At its worst, it's a memory game; at its best, it's exhibitionism shooting. This is why the use of shotguns is compatible with 3-gun, since those matches are more reloading contests than anything else (using a shotgun that you don't have to do that with puts you in Open division, where you're competing with people wearing 15,000 dollars of equipment).
Brutality matches are a lot more "perform this physical challenge over these obstacles, then shoot the gun", "run 400 yards then shoot a spinning target 300 yards away so many times it goes all the way over" (3-gun has some of that but not a lot), "throw this kettlebell and wherever it lands, shoot, then do that again until you get to the end". It turns out that it's quite difficult to shoot after significant physical exertion- that's why biathlon and (to a lesser extent) pentathlon are as challenging as they are.
Oh! Yeah, that were cool.
The project, and what it did to the rest of Guntube, form the genesis of my understanding of rifles in general. While 9HoleReviews and Ivan (the gun-printing one, either on his own or as part of Fuddblasters) are far more intelligent than IRTV is now, I wouldn't have the requisite level of understanding without them.
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
4d ago
but not any other relevant thing
The mud test is just one of the "sacred cows" that that channel was designed to challenge- that being "AKs aren't as good as you think they are, and M16s are far better than anyone thinks they are".
That's what their 'WWSD' rifle was designed to showcase, and the myths it was designed to smash: AR-15s are the best rifle system developed to date and don't need some stupid piston to "increase reliability and fix its fundamental flaw" [actually it makes the gun less reliable and heavier], pencil barrels don't shift zero any more when hot, plastic is just fine for parts that used to be made of aluminum provided they're manufactured with that material in mind, guns don't need to weigh 11 pounds to be good, and Chinese optics really are Just As Good.
After that paradigm shift they... just petered out, and became more of a social club to support Brutality matches (which I will note have changed the competitive shooting landscape significantly). And then 2020 happened and Karl went full conservative Progressive at that point- it wasn't really apparent (IMO) until then.
when girls were asked to make the same list, a high number said they need to be submissive during sex by allowing their partner to choke or slap them.
Wait a second. Women aren't generally watching porn[1], so where did they get this idea from?
And if it's true that it's 100% downstream from men watching porn then [insert Slootpost about hypoagency, in which case "yes, they do like to be degraded" actually being the correct posture to take for both sexes], but that's also completely ridiculous. Not that reality is itself not ridiculous, but I'm more interested in the men and women who actually have at least a modicum of self-respect beyond hyper-gooning[2], or trying to make love rather than just having sex.
But then, losing virginity (for teen-aged men or women) has never really been about that- from merely 'new experience' to 'just get it out of the way' to 'processing how your life's going to be now'- and maybe the people who are going to treat sex in the 'love' sense were always going to be fine[3] and those who couldn't or won't were always going to get fucked? I'd be annoyed if I got treated purely as a human fleshlight/dildo outside of a give-and-take context, that's for sure.
Of course, we're calling it "sex education", not "love education", so love is kind of outside the purview of this exercise. Which is kind of the problem with "women like to be choked while taking it in the ass" in the first place- wanting to going straight to that seems to reveal a profound incuriousity about [the physical pleasure of] one's partner in that case. But then, it isn't necessarily about physical pleasure, is it?
[1] You... don't read a lot of yaoi, do you? That shit's about as heteronormative in its seme/uke dynamics as breathplay is- maybe the Motte should compile an essential reading list.
[2] Someone said "human fleshlight" here once, and that stuck with me. I don't understand why having sex needs to be that way though from anecdote this is [a lot of the time] functionally what happens.
[3] People joke about 'cherry-popping' for various different experiences; part of that is the newness, but part of it's also the attitude being a 'virgin' to something bestows. The reason men aren't (or weren't, for a long time) considered virgins is because they're supposed to know everything already, which was the reason to be devoted to them -> the pathway to getting sufficiently choked in bed.
Actually, I think the people less likely to get off on those things as a submissive act are also those that devotion pathway doesn't work on, and the fact the people "[seeking to be] sounding the alarm" tend to be Liberated women in their 50s [where "men being sexually aggressive = bad" was at its highest- sometimes men even believe that] is significant.
[Edit: and considering TheNybbler pointed out the even more obvious- that is, "partners are expected to enjoy sex, clearly the youth are crazy"- it's another data point in the "performative shock by frigid old women who would rather be getting choked by 15 year old men, but demonizing said men for only wanting that with 15 year old women scratches that itch too" direction.]
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
4d ago
lol, whatshisface
Anyway, that's pretty much it; if there was a serious conflict I think it would have been a more immediate split. Actually, the arc of the channel is like that as well- born of match footage, they made a competition gun that nobody was really considering at the time [and single-handedly ended the AR-15 Bad Because Muh Vietnam meme], and then drifted apart.
I think that the ultimate problem with Karl is that he honestly doesn't really do very much on his own (I believe he thinks he's quite a bit smarter/more switched-on than he actually is) and is prone to flying off the handle at times; his channel took a very noticeable drop in quality after the split and hasn't recovered (there was promise, but since none of it delivered after the split I think that's a pretty clear sign the brains of the operation left). The totally-not-sponsored-sponsored-content (half the time it's the KE Arms show) sections are more technically interesting, which I think is an issue.
Karl's views match those that traditionalist gun owners (i.e. Fudds) tend to express- because progressivism is [morally speaking] just traditionalism with the valence switched (which you'd think he'd be able to figure out considering he's a Satanist, but again... what he wants to be and what he is are two different things). Ian is, far as I can tell, clearly not like that- while he can run into too-big-for-britches problems (depending on who you believe) that's relatively normal for those in his position- not like he has time to do that anyway.
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
6d ago
We are three generations into the liberal experiment of the emancipation of women and the resulting sexual revolution and birth rates are already in the terminal phase.
The birth rate declining to replacement already happened 150-100 years ago- women were emancipated at the very tail end of that period. And note that that was when countries were far more rural than they are now, which skews the results significantly... if we assume 50% rural and those families are all having 3 kids, then 50% of the country is only having one kid.
Industrialization caused a significant decline in [real or perceived] socioeconomic opportunity per capita compared to the 1800s, which is why SK's birthrates are as bad as they were in the [urban] US in the 20s and 30s [combined with them being a country where the benefits of industrialization were more captured at the top; Japan is a case with a similar culture where that was less true and they're doing a bit better as a result]- it's just that, because the US won WW2, it got a temporary reprieve from having to solve the actual issue for a while. But we never solved the issue, and now it rears its ugly head again.
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
7d ago
By noting that "childish" isn't "immature" and "gay" isn't "faggotry".
As the post demonstrates, things are just simpler when you're inherently on the same page, but it's also [weirdly] a conservative thing; either of you could have had a more conventionally attractive relationship, but instead you chose this.
It's why the childhood friend never wins in coming-of-age stories.
I disagree with his framing (and yours) that women are just tee-hee frivorce-raping hapless men with the power of the state.
Starting from egalitarianism, I would expect there's likely the same amount of abuse of both processes by their respective bad actors when each was/is the dominant mode of abuse.
And then there's the illegibility of what that being a possible outcome actually does to the average citizen's behavior under that law; men talk about it all the time, so do women. (So do responsible parents when the topic of CPS comes up- same kind of chilling effect.)
I don't think one or other gender holds a monopoly on that evil (and am not really willing to consider it, because DreadJimming/DreadJilling is inevitably where that ends up). If both are permitted, each can check the other, but more total abuse then occurs at the margins.
it's not by listening to people who, frankly, hate the other sex.
Yeah, but arbitration and spending hours trying to pass the Turing Test for the interested parties is boring, I'd much rather complain about how cokes that have had 40 penises inside them are spiritually degraded or whatever instead.
It's obviously not one where you and your wife actually love one another.
I am reminded of the classics. The key word is learn to love, and there's no doubt in my mind that this is a learned skill for lots of people, maybe all of them, to some degree. Some more than others, some never do. There's growth potential- I think someone else mentioned "people who think in terms of pathological bargaining in marriage are all insane, those who see it as an investment opportunity prosper", which gets at this- if there was nothing to be learned it wouldn't be growth, would it?
you believe in the Good Old Days she'd just have to spread 'em anyway, no recourse, and if she resists, you could beat her until she stops resisting, and that is the past you want to return to?
As opposed to today, where he'd just have to spread 'em anyway (the folds of the wallet, in this case), no recourse, and if he resists, she can beat him (with another man's fists/State power) until he stops resisting?
Surely there must be some sort of compromise (we did have one in the past, but the problem is that men and women do not, in fact, have equal biological constraints)- a new paradigm is needed to account for a seismic technological shift where women have near-total control over conception and marriage is worth less and less in the face of better alternatives (at least, from a hedonistic perspective).
DreadJimming is just as destructive when women do it.
is to make it so that you can have as much sex with your wife as you want, consent be damned, legally
Which is why this was the historical norm in the first place.
Divorce meaning the man loses most of their assets is, quite literally, a pension plan for when a sex worker has had enough of the job. That this means they're grossly overpaid and encouraged to retire that way is a problem not unique to sex workers, but it does come from the same philosophical place as other pension systems do.
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
7d ago
Any man who must say "I am the king" is no true king.
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
7d ago
a male-created space, dominated by women, that the males don't even get to stay in
Seems like a perfect metaphor to me.
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
7d ago
Or in other words, more proficient [sex] workers tend to end up with more lucrative exclusivity agreements.
Which is why it's understandable that a generation of people who just take being well-off/stable for granted will deny this dynamic exists.
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
7d ago
True cultured men know the mark of being an intellectual gentleman is to only be attracted to obvious signs of intelligence like girls wearing glasses.
Counterpoint: being attracted to women for stereotypically-masculine traits is childish and gay.
[Note that by "childish and gay", that's "this is how attraction works when your age is only measured in single digits" and "not confident/socially capable enough to trust you can dominate a more feminine woman", respectively. It's also preferring more "universal" traits than specifically masculine ones, if you prefer that framing.]
It's a measure of your capacity for destruction
The fact that we only control the capacity for destruction/abuse in men, but not in women, is closer to the root of the problem. Men are normally attracted to women with a high capacity for destruction: social popularity is a direct measure/expression of that capacity (and conversely, creates "nice girls finish last" problems if they can't secure a boyfriend powerful enough to resist hers when she sends him through that social pressure to take your resources).
Punishing women for doing that is harder, which is why it's normally (and traditionally) imposed by men-as-collective at a group level by default. Which makes things harder for the women who are responsible with that power, and something the ones who aren't interested in using it that way will (rightly) complain about being assumed guilty of wanting to abuse it by default.
The woke are once again more correct than the mainstream- gendered violence is a sex crime- it's just that most of the problems in society arise because the female gender isn't punished for its violence (and because feminists are all about encouraging its use...).
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
7d ago
They did not marry young because they were successful young.
Sure they did/were. A man in the '50s was wildly successful compared to the older cohort of men, and that success was bestowed just for showing up.
So they started their lives very early: a huge luxury. As the old get disproportionately more successful compared to the young, the average age young men get married increases. (This is part of a feedback mechanism that naturally depresses TFR when a society is overpopulated, though naturally that lags reality a bit.)
ThisIsSin
Cainanites and Abelists
7d ago
Maybe AGPs would be less resistant to the diagnosis if it was framed not as "I have autogynephilia", but rather "I have an 'imagining myself as a woman' kink".
They'd still be highly resistant, because the rest of society can say "kinks/fetishes are optional, so we have the right to tell you to keep it at home and otherwise judge you for it".
It has to be an orientation, because orientations are considered sacrosanct (that was the whole "born this way" fight being hammered out in the '00s). If they fall out of that social protection scheme they predict, correctly, that their social power to do their thing will go away.
Indeed; and while invoking Cain and Abel may flatter my personal biases, there's another one right next to it that very certainly does not: you can perhaps view [those humans given to be] traditionalists as Adam, progressives as Eve, and liberals as the Snake (and the sexes in that story are that way for good reason).
The liberals lie to the progressives so they'd take accept something that was too advanced for them and [that the liberal knew] the only reason they [progressive] wanted it was to be turbo-selfish with it.
The progressives in turn lie to the traditionalists, saying the thing was perfectly fine and good for everyone, don't think about it, just enjoy it.
And now everything's fucked up because beings that weren't supposed to have to deal with knowing [thing] now just have to deal with the consequences of knowing you can do [thing].
That, combined with the separation from God that comes from not being perfect with it, is how the knowledge from the fruit kills you!
Actually, both the Garden of Eden and Cain vs. Abel contrapose when read this way, but then the difference between the snake and Abel was that Abel acted faithfully and the snake faithlessly (and the siren call of the liberal t'was ever thus: did God truly say?)
It's strange that I've never heard anyone explain this in this way. Or maybe not, considering it's quite embarrassing, and especially to those "closer" to the fault (though there is ultimately no degree of "closer" in sin, and the traditionalists are too busy abusing it to shit-talk the progressives anyway in the "hurr Eve ate it first that means I'm better" sense anyway).
And maybe it's wrong, maybe I'm reading too hard into these... but if you're trying to explain how human nature and sin works to a prehistoric people then I'd say it describes the major players/impulses/excuses of the classes of humankind very well.
Of course, it doesn't say what each should do in response; the fact people can be bucketed this way is [and quite importantly] not part of the curse, but "the people more ready to accept 'did God truly say?'-type questions when they're posed in faith will instead desire and be ruled over by that class of people who are not so willing, and they will not be willing because they're cursed with having to work for a living until they die" sure is!
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