ThisIsSin
Anarchotyranny is when you don't know what the rules are
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User ID: 822
Is it really that disgusting for a straight man to think about having sex with a man?
I think that's generally a comorbidity with being straight, yeah (complaints about miscegenation have a similar root back when race was a purity thing). I get that the enterprise world has tried to tamp down expressions of 'yeah that's disgusting', and it's not, uh, PC to say it- but(t) in places that don't care about that you'll still hear expressions of it.
It's definitely a queer thing to even consider much less actively pursue; hell, if most women take it as an active cost to have sex with men [and I'm pretty sure most men understand this to some degree], why would a man want to do it if he's not getting the other stuff women are, traditionally, supposed to get out of sex? At least with women you usually get wine'd and dine'd, men just hear the Grindr ping and proceed straight to the bath house (or whatever- I get that's a simplification but, like, is the stereotype that inaccurate?).
The only time it's not gay for a straight man to think about it is if they're 2D and pulling off the female uniform well, but that's also purpose-built superstimulus. Most men don't look or act like that (outside of the rare femboy, and attraction to those is generally waved off as "anything that makes my dick hard is a woman"- like, we get it, that's why it's funny to fluster each other over "traps are gay")[1].
it really does push you a decent % of the way towards the opposite sex in terms of physiology and psychology.
This is where you lose me, because of the people that I know that are on HRT, none have changed in this way. Now, I guess you could say that "well, doesn't that just prove they have female brains all along?", but their general mannerisms do not suggest that was true to begin with. (Which is why I generally tend to think of them as, well, ex-men.)
[1] Though I will point out that, especially if they're tall, easily-flustered, and have a cute face... I mean, it's not like I wouldn't consider it (and I suspect that the emotions I feel when considering it are closer to what women [are supposed to] feel about men, though I am suspicious enough of the "euphoria boner" effect that I'm unwilling to say the mental pathways being activated here are not just projection). Not like I haven't been exposed to it from some other ostensibly-straight guy being attracted to me for what in hindsight may have been similar reasons, either, but then again most LGBT discourse/definition is so incredibly selfish and destructive that the categories have no explanatory power beyond a means to justify the same so I can't in good faith claim any of this fits the bill.
ThisIsSin
Anarchotyranny is when you don't know what the rules are
11hr ago
tend to be espoused by the people least disposed to impose those restrictions on themselves or hold themselves to that standard
You can just say "moral hazard".
What the LARPy version does is it breaks that by making everyone focus on what they were supposed to get and ignoring the requirements for how they are to behave
Yes, but what else do you expect from those people? The people traditionalism didn't need to force responsibility on to (or for whom that force would have had a negative/redistributive impact) are already happily married under the current system.
The market floor of "how much conscientiousness do you need to secure a marriage [in addition to the other things]" has, simply put, gone up. And the unpleasant reality is that enforcing traditionalism for the benefit of these people would be nothing more than a forcible redistribution of conscientiousness from those who have it to those who don't, because virtue is its own sort of capital.
That's not even saying it's wrong to do that, or that it is not necessary (because it very well may be), but any neo-traditionalist thought that fails to understand this is just selfish noise.
ThisIsSin
Anarchotyranny is when you don't know what the rules are
11hr ago
Sure, it runs on boys suck it up; girls suck it up.
Well, no. (Actually, I'd argue traditionalism really doesn't "run" on anything so much as it is a mostly-blind adaptation to it. But this is also coming from someone who sees [the kind of person who becomes a] traditionalist and [the kind of person who becomes a] progressive as the exact same thing, in their hearts.)
The problem here has always been economic. Before the advent of the "energy wherever we want it"- hallmark of the early 20th century- that was literal man power. There's a concept called "primary and secondary goods" that explains this pretty well- men extract primary goods (sexual dimorphism gives men an advantage in this area), women turn those primary goods into secondary goods (including children, it's worth noting). The problem, of course, is that while not having secondary goods is bad, not having primary goods is catastrophic. Sociofinancial power, then, is naturally controlled by men.
And so here's where I tap my sign: traditionalism (Abramic religions most famously) simply doesn't have an answer for when [the place men get their power from] is supplanted by technology- except for the null answer which is "turn inwards and die"[1]. And this resulted in two things:
- Men are constantly berated/judged for a lack of progress in avenues to power [which brings with it attractiveness] that no longer exist, and
- Traditionalism had no other significant check on the sociopoilitcal power of women beyond that which was imposed by the state of nature
Which is why traditionalism gave way to progressivism, and was also why the 20th century (and especially the first half) was full of alternative answers to one or both of those questions (what that answer actually was depended on the local conditions: communism is a natural fit for places with a low ratio of people to economic opportunity like Russia or China [or the entirety of the Middle Ages- equally worthless is still equal], whereas fascism is natural for places with a high ratio like 1930s Germany). Technology naturally drives this ratio down, which is part of why fascism really isn't a viable answer today while communism remains sympathetic[2].
Those questions still haven't really been resolved, because the winner of that conflict was the only remaining frontier nation (that didn't at the time, and still doesn't, have any productive way to answer this question beyond "be rich lol") that threw resources at the conflict until it vassalized basically the entire world, and if your society has a more productive answer to that question you'll just get invaded. So it goes.
[1] Now, I get that a lot of men really do like this [even some intelligent ones, on occasion]; especially since the Taliban spent 20 years providing an object lesson to the West in just how successful a strategy like that could be, and the fact the largest cities didn't even bother to resist them suggested that Taliban rule was what [the men responsible for holding up the US-led order] wanted all along. Which is a valid assumption, because the US-led order offers literally nothing to men, and if it happened in the continental US many believe that a campaign of white feathers would be ineffective.
[2] Socialism naturally occurs in populations where the variance in ability to extract that economic opportunity, and the variance in that opportunity, is low (for a variety of reasons both internal, like bad land, or external, like being a vassal state of a greater power); liberalism naturally occurs when it is high (great powers not being liberal is historically unusual).
Yes. To be fair, he was pretty girly (and pretty big) before. I guess she smells the part now, though that's complicated by failing to take regular showers and living in a house that has a strong natural odor, and the transition isn't as clear moobs to boobs.
Hmm, I guess the collaborative model should suggest men are supposed to do that as well. (At the risk of doubling down on a poor argument), maybe I'm just thinking the setup for the sex is what's doing the getting off if the partner is themselves not particularly attractive/somewhat obnoxious during the sex.
(It also reminds me that hookup culture is probably better seen as a low-risk way to have a bunch of different glimpses into how this works and not "just a step up from masturbation". I guess that requires nuance or something.)
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