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ThomasdelVasto

Κύριε, ποίησόν με ὄργανον τῆς ἀγάπης σου

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joined 2025 May 20 19:37:18 UTC

Blogger, Christian convert, general strange one. https://shapesinthefog.substack.com/


				
User ID: 3709


				
				
				

			

		

	














	


		


			



	

		

			

			

				

					

						

							
						

						

							
							

								
ThomasdelVasto


								

								

								
								
								

								
							
					
 
				


				
Κύριε, ποίησόν με ὄργανον τῆς ἀγάπης σου

				
				
				

				

					1 follower  

					follows 0 users  

					joined 2025 May 20 19:37:18 UTC
				


				
					

					
Blogger, Christian convert, general strange one. https://shapesinthefog.substack.com/



				

				

				

				

				

					

					

					
					
					

					
User ID: 3709


					
					
					
				

			


					

						
					



		

	

 











			
			

			
			

			




	


		

			
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	 Hot Bump Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
	



		

	






	

		
		

		
		
	

	

  







		

			
			
				Friday Fun Thread for October 2, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
This is cool! Don't have time to watch the whole thing since I'm about to go camping but I might watch it later. Doesn't look terrible.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Christian Controversy over Contemplation
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


I could be wrong, but quick googling tells me that the "watchfulness" in the original texts was actually a word that means "soberness" (literally "no wine"), but for some reason it has been translated with a word that matches "*fulness", which is amusing, since there is another fashionable word that also matches that same pattern. I think the word that was translated as "mindfulness" was in the original Buddhist texts a word that meant "remembering".




Your quick googling is indeed wrong. St. Hesychios the priest and Evagrius and many others literally directly use the word when referring to thoughts and meditation, in tons of passages.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Christian Controversy over Contemplation
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Yep that is my goal, currently have booked a couple retreats and in the process of finding a spiritual father besides my priest, who sadly doesn't have time for me. I appreciate the response.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 28, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Yep well said. It's about being part of a moment, the social atmosphere, more than anything.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Christian Controversy over Contemplation
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Yeah I will admit I've made a lot of mistakes in my own path towards meditation sigh. Problem is there seems to be a great dearth of competent and available spiritual directors in Christian circles when it comes to deeper prayer!


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Friday Fun Thread for September 18, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Congratulations my friend, this was heartwarming to read. May you have many years, and many children. God bless you both. :)


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Christian Controversy over Contemplation
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Many Buddhists pray to the Buddhas when reciting mantras. Western Buddhism is weird and unique in that they are trying to like fix their own minds. The two are closer than you might think.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Christian Controversy over Contemplation
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


It's amusing to see that when something like mindfulness becomes popular, someone discovers that there is a thing called 'watchfulness' in Christianity that is supposedly an ancient tradition, just like mindfulness supposedly is in Buddhism.




Except it is? I'm not pulling out of my ass as you seem to be implying...? Did you even read the quotes from Saints in the 3rd and 4th centuries?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Christian Controversy over Contemplation
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


A lot of people have driven them insane doing intense Buddhist meditation without accepting any buddhist theory. Things can get very scary fast. This person fucked up her 3D vision, had difficulty hearing at noise or processing speech, and gave herself panic attacks. Among other issues! You need a way to make sense of the world. Meditation can easily destabilize your existing worldview. If you arent going to accepting the buddhist replacement you are likely to be lost at sea.




Yeah agreed. I destabalized myself with Buddhist meditation and it's a large part of what led me to Christianity! I am very familiar with hesychasm don't worry. I didn't mention it here because this was more of a fluff piece I wrote quite quickly heh. I am indeed an Orthodox Christian.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Christian Controversy over Contemplation
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


There’s no textual evidence of visual or Buddhist-like meditation practices among the early Christians. We have, at most, Paul’s “third heaven” passage and the Book of Revelation, but we don’t have any details as to whether Paul’s experience was due to a “practice” or a dream or God simply placing it within him, and we don’t know whether Revelation was inspired by a visual practice or if it was always intended to be symbolic. That doesn’t mean that such practices are bad or a Christian shouldn’t do it, but afaik it has no firm grounding in the first 300 years of Christianity. It may have existed among the Essenes or whatever, but if the apostles and post-apostolics approved of it, we should expect to see it somewhere in the early works (in Origen, Tertullian, Clement, etc).




Really? Reading Religion of the Apostles, Fr. Stephen seemed to be pulling from quite a few sources at least from the second temple Jews, which led directly into Christian practice. I haven't looked into it deeply myself though admittedly.




The 100% authoritative, default, and obligatory Christian meditation is prayer. Using words and inner attention to ask for something with the expectation it will eventually be obtained. You find this everywhere, naturally. Then you have the hearing of scripture, which is actually a kind of meditation. You have the dwelling on God in worship, which is also meditative, and then you have the Passion. It’s probable that when the ancients were hearing or reading things, they were using their imaginative faculties, because they lived in a more stimuli-starved world.




Yes but then there's contemplative prayer, often using a repetitive prayer word / mantra. Do you not think this overlaps quite a lot with the Buddhist approach?


Interesting point on social optimality. I do think there's more prosocial stuff baked in on the Christian, but I also think we need monastic contemplation to help course correct when the social side of things gets out of whack, as it seems to be nowadays.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Christian Controversy over Contemplation
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


While it is not as formalized as the traditional monastic practices you bring up, I think for a lot of Christians' personal devotion in terms of prayer and Bible reading does have some overlap with more contemplative practices even if Protestants (or at least Evangelicals) typically don't talk about it in those terms. Protestants are definitely encouraged to take some time and read Scripture and pray on their own. Maybe a more formal structure of doing this like Lectio Divina can probably be a useful tool to do this, but it seems to me that a Protestant who starts his day with 15 minutes of personal Bible reading and prayer is fundamentally doing the same thing as somebody starting his day with 15 minutes of Lectio Divina.




Very much agree, I think it's contemplation by a different name / form but functionally it's a similar thing. It gets annoying because it makes communication about contemplation difficult when Christians sort of smuggle it in under different things.


I do think that modern mindfulness can be self centered. That being said our own tradition teaches us that the world is empty outside of God, and we find God in our hearts! It's not necessarily a bad thing to be "self-centered" in a way in the spiritual life, as long as the ultimate goal is to become more like Christ.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Christian Controversy over Contemplation
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I am not sure what the classical Christian view is! I don't think it's dualistic, but surely there are elements since Descartes came out of a Christian tradition. Studying theology of the body is on my to do list.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 28, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
It could be that we are less into the Culture War, perhaps? I also find that culture war topics seem to come and go far more frequently. It's like the speed with which things fade into irrelevance has dramatically increased.


Or from another direction perhaps our collective attention span has gotten shorter. I do think people have their own hobby horses but yeah, the political coalitions are all in a total upheaval which puts things up for grabs.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Christian Controversy over Contemplation
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Into the Silent Land by Martin Laird.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Christian Controversy over Contemplation
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


meditation is that the older version of this was explicitly Christian and often was meditation on Christian themes and often explicitly the Bible.




I disagree. If you read the quotes I put in there, or many of the Saints writing on this, contemplating in complete silence is very often taught. Their lives were far more suffused with religion, but the actual practices are no mystery. Sitting in silence or with a single prayer word is not uncommon.


I do agree that Buddhist dualism is problematic. Unfortunately the vast majority of Christians nowadays accept dualism implicitly anyway, so I think this is a sort of tilting at windmills type thing.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for September 13, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Yes!!! I was very skeptical for a long time, but yes. I do believe in the core doctrines.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for September 6, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I'm Orthodox, oriental martial arts have problematic spiritual differences imo. Also, systema is not practical at all lol as far as I understand.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for September 6, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Goal is not to fight though, it's more about personal / spiritual development.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for September 6, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Anybody familiar with Systema? Looks like such a cool martial art.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for August 30, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Started the Young Wizards series. Mostly through the first book.... it's ok. Don't love it.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Wellness Wednesday for August 19, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Doing rough lately boys. Pray for me if you're the praying kind. Living alone after the breakup has not been easy for me.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Wellness Wednesday for August 12, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Relationship problems for a loooong time that she basically refused to work on.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Wellness Wednesday for August 12, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
It's going good!!!!! Kind of. Idk I ended a long relationship / engagement and has been a bit of a mess but still. good.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Wellness Wednesday for July 29, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Thanks for checking in!!! Things are going well, not doing porn and going to gym. Got some crazy life stuff going on but I'm excited.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Wellness Wednesday for July 15, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Doing well! Started dancing again, have been having a ton of fun with that. Continuing to gym, going to PT tomorrow to try and fix some issues in my form.