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ThomasdelVasto

Κύριε, ποίησόν με ὄργανον τῆς ἀγάπης σου

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joined 2025 May 20 19:37:18 UTC

Blogger, Christian convert, general strange one. https://shapesinthefog.substack.com/


				
User ID: 3709


				
				
				

			

		

	














	


		


			



	

		

			

			

				

					

						

							
						

						

							
							

								
ThomasdelVasto


								

								

								
								
								

								
							
					
 
				


				
Κύριε, ποίησόν με ὄργανον τῆς ἀγάπης σου

				
				
				

				

					0 followers  

					follows 0 users  

					joined 2025 May 20 19:37:18 UTC
				


				
					

					
Blogger, Christian convert, general strange one. https://shapesinthefog.substack.com/



				

				

				

				

				

					

					

					
					
					

					
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	 Hot Bump Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
	



		

	






	

		
		

		
		
	

	

  







		

			
			
				Baby Don't Fear the Reaper
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


I will say that I think the "eternal conscious torment" theory is bunk. Like you said, it simply does not fit with a supposedly loving God. But even an infinitely loving God can't (or rather won't) force people to love him, so I think that hell as a self-inflicted privation of good, rather than a punishment, makes sense. Beyond that, though, it's hard to say. Perhaps the "souls outside heaven will eventually be annihilated" people are correct, perhaps the "all will eventually choose to submit to God" people are correct, perhaps the "after we die we don't get to change our minds because spiritual beings can't change their minds" people are correct. I don't know, but thankfully it doesn't keep me up at night or anything.




Yeah I'm with you here. I think I am the type of person it does keep up at night, and there are many like me. Even the idea that eternal conscious torment could be true, and the fact that so many Christians loudly proclaim it (falsely) as official church dogma, is unacceptable to me. I'm grateful so many others have done the hard legwork to prove that it isn't necessarily what the church has taught, or what Christ said.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
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I’m sorry it came across as insulting, that wasn’t my intention. You’re obviously a very moral, compassionate person who’s experienced a lot of pain, and I’m glad that you’re able to find community because that’s the most important thing in life.




Hey no worries I forgive ya. Sounds like you have been through a lot in your time as well. I hope you find a community, if you don't have one already.




You seem to be aware of the contradictions, of the problem of evil, of the injustice of eternal damnation, so you do all this work to find an interpretation of Christianity that doesn’t make God to be evil. But why?




I mean, the short answer to me is that I tried all the gnosticism and buddhism and other personal spirituality for a long, long time and it didn't work. Well over ten years. Perhaps it's utilitarian of me, but coming to Christ is the first thing that started to make my life better when I was in a really difficult place. I was extremely skeptical when I first starting considering it, and frankly I still have a lot of doubts and questions and wonder what the heck I'm even doing. But I know that I feel much better, and act as a much better person, when I go to church regularly, pray, and invest in my faith.


Jordan Peterson talks a lot about different kinds of truths. There's 'objective' truth (which has a lot of problems), but there's also a sort of personal truth, or experiential truth, or narrative truth. He pulls heavily from Carl Jung as well. John Vervaeke has a great series going into the distinction at points too, Awakening From the Meaning Crisis While I don't fully agree with the Peterson/Jung framework anymore, it helped me realize that there is more to life than 'objective' truth, and opened the range of what I would consider as a realistic worldview quite a bit.


Anyway, conversions are complicated and messy things ultimately. I couldn't really explain exactly how it happened even if I wanted to, nobody can. I was lucky enough to get the opportunity, and I took it. It's not always easy but I am grateful as my life has, as I said, gotten far better in almost every way.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Baby Don't Fear the Reaper
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I enjoyed the Great Divorce, but found it somewhat unsatisfactory! I guess my view is that if people have literally forever to choose, they will eventually get fed up with hell and come to God, because He will not abandon them.


That being said, some sort of oblivion/destruction of the soul could be feasible after the End of Days, or whatever you want to call it. I don't love it but it's at least a far more justifiable argument compared to eternal conscious torment.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
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I admit I find atheists who convert fascinating in a kind of horrified way. I even understand the impulse, to want to believe.




I think it helps that I was never a serious Christian, became an atheist pretty much immediately upon encountering real questions and difficulty as a boy. Falling away from faith and coming back seems like it may be harder, somehow?


But yes, ultimately strict materialism is basically a closed loop, can't be disproven. That itself is part of what made me question it. Then again I'm a bit of a weird Christian anyway.


I appreciate the rest of your points. I'd say that one of the biggest problems with the history of the church is we lose sight of how mysterious Christ is, and how strange the things He said were. David Bentley Hart does a great job explaining this, but the biggest mistake Christians make is that we think it's all figured out. I don't believe it is.


Ultimately in a modern (or post-modern) world we are all interpreting things like Protestants, whether we like it or not. No believer of any religion who wants to live in modernity has the luxury of just blindly believing on what is sometimes wrongly called 'faith.' I am willing to use my reason, my heart, and my moral intuitions in conjunction to inform my beliefs, and don't see a problem with that.


In terms of believing in Christ, I get it! It's weird and crazy and doesn't make a lot of sense. I had personal experiences that convinced me. I'm not here to convince you, if you don't have similar evidence I don't necessarily see myself convincing you. I wouldn't have been convinced.


Frankly I had to go through some horrible shit before I was humbled enough to start questioning my materialistic philosophy. I genuinely hope you don't have to go through anything similar.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Why successful people often have bad opinions online
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I also think that there's the problem of being too successful your whole life. You often are overly prideful and don't learn to humble yourself, learn to be wrong. You are far more confident than appropriate for the situation. You lose calibration to actual truth because everyone around you is sycophantic due to your status.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Baby Don't Fear the Reaper
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


On the popularity of infernalism, I guess it's because fear of hell is an easy to apply, reasonably powerful motivator that can be taught to children with low effort.




Yes exactly, I think this is a huge factor. In the early church it wasn't nearly as popular, but as the church grew in power and gained more control, we started using more blunt instruments I guess. Protestants really took this to an extreme with their obsession around making absolutely sure they were saved.


Which, you know, if you believe in eternal damnation, makes sense that you would be obsessed with figuring out how to be saved!


Anyway, glad you found it interesting. It is definitely not super common to discuss, largely because the traditional Christian churches are full of people who don't think very deeply about anything and scream "heretic!" any time someone brings up a theological concept that goes against their limited worldview. It has definitely been a frustrating part of my own conversion to Christianity, but luckily there are many intellectual Christians as well, they just tend to be a bit quieter.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Baby Don't Fear the Reaper
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Hah I'm glad you think it's an interesting view, even if it's still a strange mindset.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Baby Don't Fear the Reaper
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
As far as I'm aware, those rules apply only to the Culture War Thread, and not to main Motte posts. I'd be happy to ask @self_made_human or @cjet79 for clarification though.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Baby Don't Fear the Reaper
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


If you are relying on your moral intuitions anyway, why even go with the Christian God and have to go through these tortured interpretations to bend the Bible to your moral values?




I'm not relying entirely on my moral intuitions, though I am relying on them in terms of finding a church.




The Biblical God is obviously a wrathful, evil deity who is responsible for the pain and suffering of billions upon billions of humans and engages in cosmic blackmail to get you to love and worship him.




The Biblical God is not obviously evil, have you heard of something called the New Testament?


I would continue to reply but the rest of your post shows you aren't interested in actually discussing this, just insulting someone you disagree with.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
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Depends on the universalist belief. Personally I believe all human souls will be reconciled - I don't go as far as the demons and Satan. Some like Origen did, however. That's much closer to heresy in my view.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for May 10, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
About to finish Mage Errant. I'm liking it, but it has definitely slipped from a 4/5 to a 3.5 over the course of the last book so far. It's a shame, because the series had a lot of potential. Too much filler and random side character action right after a cliff hanger for my taste though, it's absolutely relentless during this book.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for May 3, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
You still seem to have a lot of reactivity & emotional difficulties based on our other interactions here bud. I'd recommend you look into emotional work for that. Joe Hudson & his Art of Accomplishment stuff is great, especially for folks who have meditated too much without any focus on the heart.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of May 4, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


I don't think this reasoning is sound. It would suggest that no secrets could possibly be kept if people could profit from them in some way. Which is trivially untrue! There are lots of cutting-edge stuff locked up in SAPs that nobody will ever get a book deal about.




Rationalists/reddit intellectuals love to talk about how it's impossible to have large conspiracies because large groups of people can never keep a secret. Yet if you look at even recent history, we are chock full of examples where this is outright false.


It's quite funny to me at this point.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of May 4, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


In China, a lot of the insurance system covers Traditional Chinese Medicine, which is pretty much just bullshit. Here in the US, I know people who have gotten chiropractic coverage under their own insurance. Acupuncture is also something apparently covered by many private insurance companies, despite also being highly suspect. Some apparently are even covering Reiki now.




None of this is bullshit, these techniques obviously work and I have benefited from them as well as millions of other people. If they didn't work, people wouldn't use them or pay for them, obviously.


Even if it's just 'placebo', whatever that actually means, the techniques work.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Friday Fun Thread for May 8, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Follow me! https://x.com/Thomasdelvasto_


I also recommend @vividvoid and @simonsarris


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				An Article Slamming us Wordcels
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Hah wait, what do you think wordcel means? It's just someone who is good with words, so writers would fall in that no?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				An Article Slamming us Wordcels
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Hah ok fair. Well I wish you well regardless. I have a lot of sales and marketing experience, specifically with startups, if you have any questions.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Wellness Wednesday for May 6, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Sorry to hear my man. Backs can be finicky. Hope it feels better soon.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				An Article Slamming us Wordcels
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Ooooh fascinating! I am going to check him out, this actually sounds pretty close to what I'm getting at. Any specific essays or anything you'd recommend I start with?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				An Article Slamming us Wordcels
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Instead, the progression of my adult life has been away from the intellectual and towards the concrete. Towards locations, communities, physical activities. It's a big part of why I'm starting a small business, one that will hopefully provide a physical outlet and a real 'third space' that our modern world is sorely lacking.




What kind of business are you thinking of starting?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				An Article Slamming us Wordcels
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


I do think there is a real danger. I was maybe too bookish for my own good when I was a teenager. But I am not sure to what extent the distance that I kept from more direct involvement with reality was caused by my bookishness, and to what extent the bookishness was just what I did while I had that distance from more direct involvement with reality. It is possible that even if I had forced myself to put away the books, I would not have engaged more directly with reality any quicker than I actually did. It's hard to say.




Yeah I know what you mean, it's hard to say exactly what the root cause is, and how bad it is. I relate to this comment a lot, especially:




sexual frustration forcing me to learn how to develop social skills




This was huge for me! I actually stumbled into /r/redpill in high school out of sexual frustration, and that changed my entire orientation. My anger at being rejected by the fairer sex led pretty directly to me putting down books for a while and really working to figure out how to succeed socially. Without that I easily could've become an incel.


To your point about people not actualizing further... I do think it depends on environment. We need culture to push especially young men to develop. Without that, I think escapism is far too attractive, and that's why we're seeing such a big rise of NEETs and such nowadays.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Faith & Doubt During Holy Week
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Awesome, make sure to ping me. I'd love to keep reading.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Faith & Doubt During Holy Week
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
This is an exciting series man! I went through many of the same thoughts on the scientific revolution, it was my field of study in college when I got my bachelors in history. I'd be curious to see where you're going with this, though it's a good overview of the scientific revolution in broad strokes.


Are you planning on posting this elsewhere? I'd love to share it on twitter and substack if you have a blog I can promote.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				An Article Slamming us Wordcels
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
As a note - I considered more directly addressing the history of writing, going deeper into the nature of society/civilization being predicated upon this sort of formalized abstractive process, but it got away from me a bit and wanted to keep it more personal/light.


If folks think that might be interesting, let me know. Or if you have reading suggestions on that front.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			
			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of May 4, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Why do you say Musks instead of Musk?