Throwaway05
1d ago
A central theme I see in a lot of the pro-China comments in this thread is "well the U.S. sucks too" well yes. We don't dispute that, but just because the U.S. has DEI does not mean that disappearing people is anywhere near the same scale of oppression.
The same goes for dysfunction, the environment, and questionable reporting of economic health.
The fed is somewhat unreliable at times is not in the same universe as cooked Chinese economic numbers.
Throwaway05
1d ago
At this point (at least in gaming) we've hit a weird point where the west refuses to make the original recipe and therefore China is starting to overtake a bit.
What you are saying was super true for the longest time but Wokeness has left an opportunity and Asian produced and flavored things are taking over because the West is ass.
See: Kpop Demon Hunters for one. The amount of money made by Genshin et al for another.
Throwaway05
1d ago
I don't understand how someone can look at how the U.S. and Europe tried to walk off a cliff for environmentalism and say with a straight face that China is the same.
It's not credible.
China refuses to make costly economic decisions to protect the environment and is doing things like massive pollution, destroying local ocean fauna, and so on.
You can argue that this is economically a good idea, but it.....is happening.
The U.S. has chaotic moments but the overall arc is to make costly decisions of questionable efficacy to try and solve the problem. This has yet to be massively effective but they are trying.
Throwaway05
1d ago
I'd be more amenable to this if it wasn't for the industrial espionage and IP theft - I'm not complaining about VK here.
You also have a difference between likely popular versions (like Korea and Japan have) and state enforced ones.
Throwaway05
1d ago
You do realize that a large amount of the IP theft was literally using state espionage resources to seize and repurpose information from Western companies while instituting significant protectionism domestically?
"We will use all of our powers to compete unfairly against you and will prohibit you from competing at the most basic level" is a pretty central criticism.
China only does what they do because of the manufacturing prowess, otherwise they'd be a pariah state.
Throwaway05
1d ago
They are absolutely still engaged in state sponsored industrial espionage, and in a way that is pretty much unmatched given the way the state and companies over lap.
They still engage in a lackadaisical approach to international copyright (not that I am that mad about it).
Still continue to basically ban foreign competitors of various tech things and then make their own version.
One of the biggest ethical problems of the country is also its strength - state power and totally unfair business practices.
Certain you can do that, and you can get away with it if you are China but it is deeply unethical.
Throwaway05
1d ago
I have put vastly more effort into this than you did, but admittedly it's also mostly assertions that can be dismissed (I could support every one with a citation if I cared though). Just irritated at how easily people in rather mediocre societies can rattle off some half-baked condemnations.
You wrote more but that does not mean I'm convinced about most of your points:
RE: Lying - The West typically attempts to have objective reliable processes outputted by the government and corporate sectors that represents various things. China does not. For a recent and important example consider COVID policies, statistics, and information.
RE: IP Theft - I don't believe your statements on this are factually accurate.
RE: International Society - The U.S., Western Europe, and the weaker countries all at least pretend. China acts like the other "evil" countries. That is not good company.
RE: Genocide - Meh, I'm not particular excited about this one but the genocide people seem to argue that it counts.
RE: Oppression - You can get disappeared just as easily in China as Russia. You can get welded into your home during COVID. From the rich to the poor nobody has any rights unless they are an in favor party elite, all it takes is to get noticed. To add to the angst is an anarcho-tyranical element, petty corruption is everywhere and the country just sweeps through areas every once and awhile to execute or imprison anyone misbehaving. The superficial competence of the regime makes it worse not better.
RE: Taiwan - In the case of Russia/Ukraine the national pride aspect is somewhat countered by other somewhat compelling reasons such as the ports and agriculture. In the case of China/Taiwan it seems to primarily out of imperial angst, as the high tech industries that give Taiwan are fragile and would likely not survive kinetic action. If some democratic process occurs obviously it will be a bit different.
RE: The environment - While China does contribute to some renewables I challenge you to find a reputable source indicating Chinese is better for the environment than the West. This perception is not driven by mere propaganda effort.
Throwaway05
1d ago
Generally a private profile is a bad sign, and you seem to be making assumption and replying in a way that I don't think is conducive to discussion - for instance assuming I'm MAGA, or a Trump supporter, because I think that people need to be more calm about Trump?
Not typically a good sign.
Throwaway05
1d ago
Well the prompt was "good." If it was something else like "most likely to get us off planet" I might have a different answer, but I do think in terms of "goodness" they are pretty damn shit.
Throwaway05
1d ago
I picked one person from each side of the aisle to make it clear it wasn't partisan, and your approach seems more "gotcha" oriented than anything, between that and a hidden profile I think I'm going to exit this one.
Cheers!
Throwaway05
1d ago
Oh yeah many people here can do this if directly prompted, which is why I made it about people I know in real life. Too many people here will jump in on the discussion (big enough forum and people will get to it) or just say something to score points.
Likewise I'm sure with direct prompting people can do what I ask, but the baseline level on the internet is "Trump will cancel the elections" which is...not great understanding.
Throwaway05
1d ago
In Fate: Zero, there's a scene where three legendary kings get together and share a drink while discussing what it means to be a king.
Anybody interested in this discussion who reads Cultivation Fantasy should 100% read Virtuous Sons.
Throwaway05
1d ago
I mean China is one of the world's most morally bankrupt societies, they lie all the time to everyone (foreign and domestic), they have the most stealing of any country (primarily in the form IP theft), don't really believe in international treaties and society, engage in genocide, oppress their population, clearly want to steal Taiwan (jury is out on how bad they'll be about this) and during a time when we are realizing how much we've fucked the environment they refuse to do anything but worsen the problem.*
What they have (at least superficially, it isn't totally clear) is strength.
That's enough for some people, I'm not sure it is for me.
*I don't think any of these are controversial but please let me know if so.
Throwaway05
1d ago
One argument -
One party is actively claiming to be the party of decorum, empathy, and professionalism.
The dems need to act like the adults they claim to be or stop making claims to that end.
Throwaway05
1d ago
I implore you to consider that not all analysis of Trump's behavior are driven by hatred.
My assertion is that I have yet to really see any anti-Trump writing that acknowledges him as a complete person, pretty much everything I've seen for ten years now has been exaggeration and stereotyping of his worse attributes and behaviors.
A much, much less lower bar ("say anything nice about Trump at all") has never been cleared by anyone I've interacted with in real life and rarely here.
I disagree with your characterization of charisma but more importantly the aforementioned behavior has been well known and noted by neutral and positive coverage since before he jumped into politics.
Either you ignore it because of Trump hatred, or (more likely) you haven't dug into who the guy is a person, which does a much better job of explaining his beliefs and behavior.*
Private knowledge tells me that Obama is a shitty overly permissive parent and that Bush did a bunch of coke when he was younger, but you don't need to be clued in to know that Clinton got up to shitty stuff with women or that Obama is destructively competitive. These are the most important people in the world and the unbiased information about how they actually function is out in the world.
Related: almost zero moderate to low information Democrats I know are aware of Trump's attitude towards drugs and alcohol despite this being an important part of his character, in fact most people assume they are the opposite of the truth.
Throwaway05
2d ago
I implore you to try and model him as a real person as opposed to a stereotyped figure of hatred. He has human moments, motivations.
He is famous for actively soliciting feedback and information from EVERYBODY even when it's ill advised and he shouldn't listen, this gets painted as "whoever talked to him last" in the media but their is tremendous value to that.
I know several people who have run into him in his golf clubs and he usually asks what they think about it, actually listens, and appears to provide some consideration if they have something meaningful to say.
He is a person doing a hard job without the background that is usually required to do well.
Does he have character flaws? Everyone who is president does. Some people are worse than others, but:
Don't lose track of the fact that he is a real person and some not some poorly written Saturday morning cartoon.
Throwaway05
2d ago
Politicians as a class of human beings are pretty obviously suffering from high rates of narcissism, even if you think a lot of it is subclinical.
Arrogance isn't narcissism, and the former is likely in part required to be a politician. The latter requires actually understanding the motivations of someone which in most cases is going to require a personal relationship or types of interactions that are incompatible with politics.
You'll note that most people who believe Trump is a narcissist already do not like Trump, and most people who like him don't believe he's a narcissist.
Analysis of this is hopelessly mired by political inclinations and fundamentally low quality news coverage.
It's pretty obvious what Trump is doing with Greenland for instance but you'd never guess that from social media and most mainstream media coverage.
Throwaway05
2d ago
I have two problems with this line of thinking:
-
A president wishing to protect their legacy is not a novel insight. Anyone who makes it to the position wants to do that. Being an old man in a second term may magnify this need but most actions taken by most presidents should be assumed to be with the goal in mind.
-
Trump isn't really a narcissist. I've grown increasingly uncomfortable with the (thankfully mostly private) way medical and psychological professionals will throw the diagnosis around. He can't really meet the "formal" criteria because of things like "yes he is actually one of the most important people in the world" and a hopelessly obscured life history.
In terms of informal criteria, Trump has been the victim of so many bad faith attacks, lies, insults, slanders, and true criticisms that if he was at all vulnerable to narcissistic injury he would have gone away or broken down long ago.
Narcissism is superficially described by arrogance but is better described by insecurity. The first hand accounts of Trump I know do describe an amount of insecurity, but certainly not to an excess.
His ability to function makes an NPD diagnosis unlikely, furthermore his ability to attack and frustrate his opponents indicates a sufficient theory of mind to make NPD unlikely.
As a additional matter:
People who know Trump very well will state that while he may be conceited, he legitimately is interested in doing what is best for the American people, especially if it improves his legacy. He just does it in a chaotic way because he is not a politician and does not have an expert level intellectual background in the things he is working on.
Throwaway05
3d ago
Once you get something down you realize you have some new bizarre shit to memorize. It is endless.
Throwaway05
3d ago
just going to drop into this to note that hypnotism is a real thing with an actual evidence base, at the same time it doesn't really work like people think it does.
Throwaway05
3d ago
ECGs. Fucking ECGs. I get good at understanding them when I absolutely have to (before exams), but guess what, by the time the next one rolls around, it's all out of my head.
I am in this comment and I do not like it.
Throwaway05
4d ago
I imagine the issue is that we (physicians) have a tendency to write with certain tics, these not seeming like normal writing to most people.
Since you've AI'ed a bunch already I imagine others are going to see that and make assumptions?
Throwaway05
5d ago
Not 100% sure on that since the source was a reddit comment but a cursory google makes it seem to be the case.
Throwaway05
6d ago
Clair Obscur had a prestigious award revoked after the game turned out to have a handful of temporary assets that were AIgen left i
My understanding is that this was not actually a prestigious award and may in fact have been done for publicity.
It is not a belief system, I am expressing known facts.
If you'd like to provide a reputable source indicating that China is not an oppressive regime please do so. Same for my other concerns.
If your argument is that the Chinese are moral aliens then I suppose that's fine, but then also arguing that at the same time everything is a lie and propaganda isn't reasonable, you have to pick one.
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