Throwaway05
26d ago
Lots of weird shit causes orgasms, and IIRC people have used hypnosis as a replacement for anesthesia. Dissociation is powerful.
If you are saying hypnosis can make your boobs grow then I'm going to call you a crank unless you have some damn good evidence.
Throwaway05
3mo ago
Two additional things to consider:
-
"They" did in fact "interfere" with the election, and publicly admitted to it (see: "fortifying" type claims). This may not count legally as election tampering or whatever but may feel that way to the right and disgruntled moderates.
-
Many voters know someone who hates Trump enough to do this and feel justified doing so. I have several family members and friends involved in government, some of whom I straight up asked "if you had the ability to stop Trump from being elected would you do it?" to which the answer is "yes absolutely, he's literally Hitler." It doesn't take much to believe that some people in the position to do something had the same thoughts.
I earnestly believe that anyone who doesn't get why people have concerns is being obtuse.
Throwaway05
2mo ago
You may find it fruitful to read some of the work done by non-woke Psychologists and Psychiatrists (ex: Life at the Bottom by Theodore Dalrymple), if for no other reason than to go "my god other people have noticed this!"
Everybody who deals with these people has experienced this stuff but having the tools to diagnose and label what these people do is helpful (and may at times give you some insight in how to work them for your needs).
Throwaway05
1mo ago
That attitude leads to things like the opioid crisis where the rest of society is left cleaning up the mess left behind by people making questionable decisions.
A huge chunk of healthcare costs these days are associated with lifestyle related problems. That's going to get worse if you have 100k people fuck up their kidneys and need dialysis.
Negative externalities are a thing.
Throwaway05
29d ago
Hypnosis is actually not fake, it just doesn't work the way people think it does. It's used in modern (Western) medicine it just doesn't really work well and the real version isn't mega useful so you don't hear about it a lot.
Throwaway05
2mo ago
You have summoned a crankier doctor than the one I think you are looking for but I'm sure he will chime in at some point.
Some thoughts:
-It's generally standard of care to recommend that patients on psychiatric medication (or just cross through that and make it just meds in general) abstain from alcohol use. This is for a variety of reasons, chronic and acute alcohol use both have impacts on certain kinds of drug metabolism. Some medications have specific interactions with alcohol (ex: Benzos). Alcohol and Marijuana appear to have a problematic effect on underlying conditions (no shit booze is a downer). This also applies to non-psych things. We are going to suggest you stop drinking.
-Just because it's standard of care doesn't mean it's mandatory, but again if we are speaking in official capacity we are going to tell you not to do it.
-SSRIs are (with some exceptions) pretty fucking safe. Older antidepressants have some issues. We have mostly switched for a reason.
-Alcohol is a poison with a very variable effect on the human body. Sick? Tired? Just worked out? Empty or full stomach? Haven't drank in a while? Random luck of the draw nonsense? You'll have a bad time. Easy to blame on the social boogieman if you do two doubles on an empty stomach.
-Personal anecdote: I've run into a "date rape" drug level alcohol response in settings where I know nobodies shit is tampered with, so I'm certain this class of thing exists, including one time where it was me and my own bottle of rum (and I later connected the dots that I recently had diarrhea and that may have been responsible for my bad time...).
-People are variable (duh) and have variable responses to things AND also variable awareness. There are a lot of people in this world who struggle to realize they are drunk until they are absolutely obliterated. You can easily see how those types (or other adjacent groups) might feel they were drugged if they got really drunk secondary to some other non-sketchy circumstance.
-Mixing uppers and downers is a huge problem and a lot of young people don't take the combination of stimulants (including all that Starbucks) and alcohol seriously. That combo can cause severe reactions and more people abuse those things now.
Throwaway05
2mo ago
Additionally the level of affirmative action in medicine is extremely intense, I haven't looked at the data in a few years so I don't know where it's at now, but it used to be absurd - something like 90% percent of black med students would not have ended up in medicine if put on a fair playing field.
Throwaway05
26d ago
Dawg I haven't changed my goal posts at all you just jumped down my throat reaallllll harrrrrdddd.
Throwaway05
26d ago
I am supportive of hypnosis as a modality but it has limited utility and that utility is further hampered by susceptibility to hypnosis seemingly being more of an innate trait. Some people it works for and they want it to work for and you can do some great things with it but for the majority it is useless.
However overstating its value in the way you seem to do patterns matches to ....a lack of scientific rigor, and I'm saying this as someone who came into the conversation correction someone to let them know hypnosis is actually a thing.
Throwaway05
26d ago
Since you are asking this question I'm sure there is a paper from 50 years ago with terrible research methods that suggests this is a thing, but that doesn't make it not absolute nonsense.
To more directly answer your question, I predict the literature that is the body of scientific knowledge suggests that this is not a thing and does not take it credibly. The existence of crank papers to the contrary does not mitigate this.
Especially since it is now known that many strange papers at the time represented intelligence work.
Throwaway05
26d ago
I mean it's entirely possible it's more potent than described by medical literature. It's also entirely possible that people who buy into it are more likely to have out of character or excessive manifestations.
Throwaway05
1mo ago
That's all stuff which is much amenable to discussion and debate (even if we disagree) but these are unrelated to my problem with your post which was the gross factual inaccuracies.
It's several orders of magnitude more common for a doctor to start making 250K a year at age 32 with a half million dollars in debt than it is for a doctor to be making over 750k a year, which nearly zero are doing through clinical duties alone.
Your comment, much as I loathe to use this term, is misinformation.
"What is the right amount of money for a doctor to make" is a reasonable question but it's functionally entirely unrelated to healthcare costs in America.
Throwaway05
1mo ago
Do keep in mind that the UK does its own thing and doesn't map well to the process in the U.S. (or other western countries).
At an extreme example if you want to be an electrophysiologist in the U.S. you'll be doing a minimum of 16-18 years of training after high school, with many looking at 22 years. During 8 of those years you will be working 60-80 hours a week with some programs closer to 100 hours a week. Even if the years are the same you are doing twice* as much work during each year (is that sane? No. But it is).
All the while you are dealing with an average student loan debt of around 250k, with that number not counting interest or all the rich kids (who are admittedly a fair chunk) with zero debt.
If you want anybody in the U.S. at all to do that you need to offer them a pretty big carrot. And you do want them to do that - we've seen the outcome disparity between U.S. MDs and other populations (most notably of late, midlevels).
AND.
Lower quality doctors (or doctor replacement) increase overall healthcare cost due to increased unnecessary testing. Very well documented at this point.
You need to change the regulatory and malpractice environment first if you want any of this to work, which nobody seems to be interested in doing, and if you did things would cost less without coming for MD salaries at all.
*these days 1.5 times the work is much more common and realistic but that's still a fuck huge disparity.
Throwaway05
1mo ago
Tylenol would not be approved as an over the counter drug if discovered today because of how easy it is to kill yourself accidentally (or intentionally) with it.
The average person has no idea how badly many drugs can interact with each other, recreational substances, and with medical comorbidities.
And that's ignoring other problems like the people who would give themselves antibiotics for viral infections etc.
Throwaway05
27d ago
This is a common side effect of that class of medications, you should discuss this with your primary care doctor and psychiatrist, they may recommend medication changes, dietary counseling, ancillary medications like statins etc.
Throwaway05
28d ago
Some of that was deleted (or I otherwise can't see). Missed the previous discussion in the weird psychopathology thread line.
I invite you to read the wikipedia page, which links to some actually studies on the matter (ex: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/apt.13706)
Basically the most evidence based approach to hypnosis concludes that it seems to function similar to mindfulness meditation, biofeedback, and other similar modalities where someone hacks their cognitive state and level of arousal, which is often easier to do with assistance from an external resource then by a person on their own.
Obviously this implies a limited level of clinical utility but it can help with psychosomatic adjacent pathology and any time "mind over matter" is more directly relevant.
I was fortunate enough to experience some training in this during my medical education and while I personally was not hypnotized I witnessed some of my colleagues experiencing it....and it was ultimately very unexciting and contrary to media portrayal (which is as this usually goes).
It seems most reputable people who do this emphasize the limitations and the fact that it can't really make you do stuff you don't want to do already.
Throwaway05
1mo ago
Fuck. I need to get a drivers license already.
Yes.
Also do keep in mind that the USMLE is a total horror show, my suspicion is that the switch to pass/fail for Step 1 probably puts "not entirely committed" people in a bind because it's harder to tell if they are excelling at the level they will need for still scored Step 2/Step 3.
Throwaway05
2mo ago
Supposedly that specific black actress has some form of connection to SBI and that's why she has been in so many games lately. She's also in many of the games that had the "female attractiveness change."
Throwaway05
1mo ago
Unfortunately, as someone pointed out downthread, "monetizing their skills" these days increasingly means going into tech or pharma, rather than actually, y'know, treating patients.
This is a really important point in my mind, you can argue that doctors aren't the smartest people in the world but by the time you get into late training you've demonstrated that you are among the hardest working (24-36 hour shifts, 80+ hour weeks for some specialties) and best at stupid box checking.
Throwaway05
1mo ago
Most European countries have 6 years of combined med school and undergrad (see: Germany) vs. 4 years of undergrad + 4 years of med school in the U.S. these days 1-2 gap years is also common, with 3-5 being uncommon but not rare (for things like PHD, MPH, MBA).
The amount of debt is important because it is relevant to the level of pushback you get for changes, and the fact that if you cut salaries by half and allow limitless importing of doctors then you will have pretty much zero people applying to med school in the U.S. overnight (and that would be the rational response). People still interested will do PA/NP school instead.
Do also keep in mind the quality difference which is real but is frequently not acknowledged.
Throwaway05
3mo ago
Manual restraint by people untrained in medicine is inherently risky for people with compromised cardiopulmonary health
It is not possible to safely restrain a patient. Their are more and less safe ways to do so, and it is tightly regulated - however these regulations essentially exist not to maximize safety, but instead to introduce liability to some poor individual staff member or the facility (for example: making a sleep deprived resident run to the opposite end of the hospital to lay eyes on granny for 2 seconds to make sure she's alive before running back to the other end of the hospital to deal with the emergency surgery they were supposed to be performing. Now if they fucked up and granny's arm was pinched they are liable...).
Places deal with this problem in various ways, with the worst being for-profit psychiatric hospitals, often they elect to "ban" restraints, meaning that they did some math and having staff and other patient's attacked is better for the system than the risk of a poorly managed physical restraint. Often they just sub dangerous amounts of chemical restraints (medications) instead, which is much better at causing invisible morbidity in the long term.
It's extremely easy to have a decompensated patient in the ED who refuses to stop trying to murder the staff, get placed in a restraint bed for 10 days, scream constantly the entire time (and give themselves Rabdo in the process), and manage to choke themselves on a combination of their clothing and spittle and expire when the 1:1 steps out of the room for two minutes because of another fight elsewhere in the ED (for legal reasons this is not a true story).
Physical holds (as the police do) are safer since they are necessarily actively maintained, but aren't great either, especially when their insufficient number disparity and a notable size disparity (as was the case with Floyd I believe).
You can end up with someone like a group of 5 or 6 hundred pound nurses trying to restrain a lineman sized agitated patient and have someone accidentally collapse his trachea in the scuffle, or have a guy tear his scrotum because agitated patients often don't wear clothes and skin can easily caught on stuff during a scuffle.
No restraint is safe.
Restraints are however necessary.
Police have much better training (and practice), significantly higher levels of physical ability and size (which is critical) and more options (including stuff like tasers) and flexibility (generally speaking beating up an agitated but not-sick person a little bit is the best option to facilitate a safer restraint, not an option in healthcare though). It's generally safer (assuming no malfeasance, not making an argument that was present or not present in the Chauvin case).
As another random example - patients who are restrained rarely have vitals monitoring (since most patients by volume are substance, psych, or ED boarded on a stretcher in front of the nursing station to keep a close eye on them).
Throwaway05
3mo ago
Like Dean, I have also followed this topic over the years and had intense disagreement with you and felt extremely frustrated with your response patterns.
Unlike him I'm not convinced you are lying exactly, but with respect to this specific topic (and maybe also the "unequal treatment of BLM protesters vs. Jan 6 people) you behave in a way that is out of sync with the rest of your presentation and temperament, and is not unlike Darwin (as a point of comparison).
Darwin may or may not realize what is doing or how what he is doing is perceived by others.
You may not recognize what you are doing and how it is perceived by others.
But I believe a reasonable person's (here: Dean) subjective experience of your argumentation style with respect to this topic could be labeled "lying," by virtue of the way you present it.
As others elsewhere is chain have noted, it seems like you are approaching this in a specific way (?legal rhetoric style?) that you have much practice in, and value, but does nothing for the people you are disagreeing with in this context.
You I suspect are a good lawyer, and your proficiency with this style disincentivizes people from replying with specifics because you frequently circle back to that style and use it well, which is not the conversation and discussion they want to have and feels like arguing about apples when they want to be talking about trains.
Throwaway05
2mo ago
And then I face-palmed when the final quiz began asking questions about HIPAA, which is not a thing in India and not covered in the course itself, strongly suggesting the course had been designed by ripping off a US source, or perhaps the latter hadn't localized it particularly well.
Jesus fucking christ.
Anyway - thank you for in essence covering my thoughts better than I did.
I think what I struggle with is that people should be allowed to make mistakes, but they should not be allowed to be fooled (or at least we should try and be more proactive in preventing that) but we have this issue where so many big topics are misleading, or political (as the sterilization is) and therefore people may need more protection.
Throwaway05
24d ago
It's also worth keeping mind that mental illness almost always impairs insight - your ability to understand and read your mental state may be hampered (not that the average person is truly good at this, but it can be more important in someone who struggles).
Many borderline patients hear the diagnosis and its description and go "thank god, that's me! it all makes sense now." Many go "no that's bullshit I AM TOTALLY FINE LALLAALAL................."
Borderline is better conceptualized as more like depression or anxiety than schizophrenia when it comes to severity. Many people with depression or depressive thought process never present for care, nor do they need it. Some of these people kill themselves.
The same is true with Borderline. At state hospitals in the U.S. you often see a mix of psychosis and severe borderlines who won't stop hurting themselves. It can be very bad. You also have borderlines where the symptoms are so rare or mild that you'd have to have a long relationship with a therapist to catch it.
Don't underestimate how "harmless" it can be.
When it comes to treatment it is treatable. Certain kinds of therapy work (chiefly DBT). Patients accumulate coping skills and calm down just by aging. Medications don't work great but can be helpful for symptomatic management.
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