TitaniumButterfly
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User ID: 2854
You bothered to write that so I'll respond in kind.
Shaving the pubic area only came in for the West relatively recently.
Not really pertinent imo.
It really does smack of wanting a Barbie doll/immature partner, where normal female hair growth which comes about with sexual maturity during puberty is now seen as "ugh, disgusting, unnatural".
I've met plenty of women who seem hellbent on making this analytical leap, and about zero men who think that way at all. I don't think women's pubic hair is disgusting or unnatural. I do think it hides the structure of the pussy, which I enjoy looking at, and that going down on her is about fifteen times more pleasant when I'm not fighting through hair and stopping constantly to pull loose strands from my mouth. Also, any grooming methods coded as 'interested in enjoying sex' are going to be de facto attractive on some level.
I've never met a sexually-confident woman who has weird paranoias on the subject, whereas every woman I've met whose mind runs immediately to 'this is some kind of weird desire for prepubescent girls' has been, uh, we can say sexually-not-confident. In short it seems to me that it tends to have more to do with personal insecurity than any kind of rational objection.
When guys start normalising shaving their legs, pits, and groins as well as faces, come back to me on this demand.
I wouldn't. But it is worth noting that 'more body hair' is masculine-coded and 'less body hair' is feminine-coded so this is a pretty poor equivalence. Roughness, coarseness, and hairiness are masculine traits; smoothness and so on are feminine ones. Calling attention to, and amplifying, places and patterns that are sexually-dimorphic is normal human sexual behavior and no weird motivations need to be imputed beyond that.
Also just... just, while we're here, I have several prepubescent daughters whose hairless vulvas I see fairly often (during diaper changes, bathtimes, and general little kid craziness) and hopefully it doesn't need to be affirmed that I don't find anything attractive or sexually-compelling about that per se.
TitaniumButterfly
1d ago
There's a lot of truth to this but I think it's phrased a bit too strongly. A based woman may be fine and they are out there; a woman reaching for the 'based' stereotype is bad news.
TitaniumButterfly
1d ago
They just communicate differently. The object level is a distant concern compared to the status signals it encodes. Once they feel safe and satisfied they're as capable of sincere intellectual exploration as anyone else.
Oh, hot take here, but one of the cool things about women once you notice it is that they tend to say the opposite of what they mean. This is because they are conflict-averse and avoid direct communication so as to maintain deniability.
If a woman complains that you're not spending enough time with her, you're probably spending too much time with her. If she tells you she's happy with your body despite the recent weight gain, it's time to hit the gym. They will tell you everything you need to know provided that you have ears to hear and never let on that you understand this.
My model predicts that the more rights women have, the more vociferously they will complain about oppression. Women dressing up as Handsmaid's Tale concubines and complaining about high-status men wanting to control and breed them speak for themselves.
Any tips for the young trad turboautists on the bored to replicate your success?
I'm leery of this for the reason I already gave, which is that I cannot take credit and I mean 'the grace of God' entirely literally.
But, off the top of my head:
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It wasn't until relatively late in life that I discovered that I'm very attractive. All the signs were there all along but no one ever told me so I didn't know. Hilarious amount of history snapped into place when I realized it, etc. But this doesn't help anyone not in the same boat.
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That said you may be more attractive than you know and regardless you are absolutely capable of maximizing this by working out and dressing well. The former does take a lot but pays its own dividends; the latter is much easier and cheaper than commonly supposed. Happy to expand on either upon request.
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The usual advice seems to be that women are attracted to confidence (true) so the winning move is to learn to fake those signals (effective but ultimately pyrrhic). In fact the 'secret' is to genuinely become confident, which can only be accomplished through intentionally choosing to become worth that sense of self. In my case, going into business for myself and learning to stand my ground unflinchingly in the face of despair may be the single greatest factor in my maturation. Whoever said that trying to get one's own business off the ground is like eating glass every day until (and if) that changes was correct. While I've never gotten much alpha from stuff like BJJ I expect that in most cases something like that would be a helpful and viable path for other men. At least in the US we have been raised in a culture which seeks to infantilize and emasculate us; this must be countered consciously, but not obnoxiously. Women out there, regardless of what they repeat to themselves and each other, are desperate for grounded, confident, masculine men.
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In that vein, if you want a hot young happy wife, and especially one content to be a full-time woman rather than pursuing her own career in the masculine sphere, you need to be able to generate enough income to keep her comfortable that way plus the inevitable frivolous expenses which please women so well. This may sound callous but it's almost impossible to manage that with a job at this point; starting your own business is, in our generation, the only plausible path I've found to this level of income, and it's far from a guarantee.
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Learn basic stuff like how to repair things around the house, cars, etc. Youtube is amazing for this and a little bit goes a long way. My wife likes to say "A husband is a Daddy you choose" (tongue in cheek, mostly) and whatever you can do to push that button is probably worthwhile. Gets back to masculine confidence.
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Trite as this may sound, I don't think I could have landed my wife until I had made peace with the possibility of not finding anyone, especially as I got older. When I was at peace with myself as a single man, I instantly became much more attractive. Not much turns off women like the smell of desperation. When a mutual friend introduced us I told her up front "I'm not really interested in dating at the moment," (true; I had decided to raise my SMV a bit more before getting serious about that) "but you seem really interesting so let's at least meet up." Was I conscious of this as 'game'? Yes. Did it only work because I actually meant it? Also yes. In other words, don't chase girls and don't try to make them into anything they don't want to become. Raise your own value, stand firm, and let the illiquid market come to you. This may be a comparatively high-risk strategy but the rewards, if any, are commensurate. She was amazed at how unconcerned I was with impressing her. "This is going to be yes or it's going to be no and either way it'll be by a landslide," I said; "Either way we don't need to worry about it."
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Know what you want (this takes experience and maturity) and hold to it. When I met my wife I told her that if we were going to move forward she wasn't a vegan anymore (because babies) and that her beliefs were her business but we'd be going to church together, and ultimately as a family, every week. Pop relationship advice might label this as controlling or somehow abusive but I could almost see her sigh with relief. Women want you to establish structure and boundaries and can't feel safe unless you do. Flip side, again, is that doing this in a loving and appropriate way requires a certain gravitas which cannot be effectively simulated in the long run.
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Your wedding is the starting gun, not the finish line. She married you because you gave every indication of continuing on the trajectory that she found so attractive and you owe it to her to live up to that, and only by doing so may you expect the same in return. Failure is more acceptable than you'd think, but defeat is a state of mind and must never be accommodated. Learn to take losses in stride without losing your own frame before imagining that you are ready for a wife.
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Pray without ceasing. This will go over the heads of many here but you want the woman God has for you, or else none at all, and those really are the only two good options. You can be ready for her to appear but you cannot cause her to appear. Thy will be done.
Was with a woman at one point who started drinking the feminist kool-aid and hit me with the whole "Wanting me to shave down there is patriarchal pedophilia" thing. I countered by pointing out that she also preferred me (my face) to be clean-shaven. No answer to that of course.
That relationship lasted a lot longer than it had any right to and many years later I still feel relief to have escaped. I have a beard now, too.
Yes, I think we're extremely well-matched in terms of physical attractiveness. Specifically each other's league as it were. We both find each other very hot. Between the two of us I might be the objectively more-attractive one but not by a lot and her youth goes a long way toward closing that (notional) gap in a manner that feels sustainable -- no matter how old I get, she's younger than me enough that she occurs as much more attractive than any women my age. I enjoy the stares she gets when I take her out to nice places; other men dating older women seem to have a hard time taking their eyes off of her and what can I say except that this works for me.
When we started dating she was mistaken for a highschooler a couple of times (actually in her 20s) and while we never went out of our way to generate the age-gap-curiosity stares we did enjoy laughing about it when it happened. She's old enough now, and I seem to be preserving myself well-enough, that it happens less often, which is good also. I'd say it was fun but it's also nice to draw a bit less attention nowadays.
TitaniumButterfly
1d ago
Just as an anecdote and because I like to talk about it, I'm substantially older than my wife and we've both found it to be a healthy, even ideal dynamic. Coincidentally, yesterday, she told me that sometimes she likes to dream that I'm even older and she's even younger. But then we are also countercultural weirdos who believe in things like traditional gender roles and having lots of kids, so ymmv.
Finding a jailbroken woman who's willing to notice how things actually work and what she actually wants, independent of mass cultural programming, is strongly indicated if one can manage. But despite having intentionally optimized for finding such a girl, I can't pretend it was anything other than the grace of God that we got together. It's hell out there.
TitaniumButterfly
2d ago
FWIW I have consistently found Pratchett to be overrated.
TitaniumButterfly
4d ago
Yeah I feel like you pretty much just said it all.
I don't think that men in general think that way, and yes you're fairly unusually pedo-adjacent. Certainly pedos exist and that's probably some kind of a spectrum and hopefully you're on the right end of it, but this doesn't imply anything about normal male sexual preferences.
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