WisheyWashey
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User ID: 1349
WisheyWashey
4mo ago
Is Israeli treatment of the Palestinians much worse then the treatment of religious minorities across the Islamic world? It seems odd to complain about "civilian casualties, ethno-nationalism, apartheid politics, genocidal statements" when the muslims are so happy to impose them on others. The hysteria is one sided.
Hey, they could've joined the Union side, and ended the war in two weeks, basically, or failing that, and not immediately joined up with the rich white people who started the war to take rights away from black people.
I was reffering to the people who fought on hte union side.
I'm sure you will also agree that the Africans who died fighting European attempts to eradicate slavery should have joined the European side.
World War II was mainly fought on the Axis side by poor Japanese, German, and Italian people. Doesn't make it less right.
And yet, the poor white people who joined the "right" side get the same ill treatment.
WisheyWashey
4mo ago
I'm not a historian, but the curtailing of the privileges of straight white men plausibly started with the abolitionist movement and the idea that maybe they shouldn't be allowed to own people as property.
This is a very unusual way to describe abolitionism. Abolitionism was never explicity about stopping White men from owning Black people, it was more universal then that based in Christianity and/or the enlightenment. The vast majority of abolitionists were White and to my knowledge there was no attempt by any other group of people to eradicate slavery.
The pushback to that involved a civil war
A war largely fought by poor white people.
WisheyWashey
10mo ago
This is dubious - there was a 2/3 supermajority for membership in the 1975 referendum, and zero sign of meaningful public support for changing this until UKIP get 16% of the vote on a 38% turnout in the 2004 European Parliament elections.
The EEC and the EU are not the same thing. 2004 was the year Blair opened the borders to Eastern Europe which had a major effect on the lives of the English working class.
Does a 38% turnout not indicate a lack of legitimacy?
This is simply false. It is true that "I see myself as more British than English" is the best predictor of remain-voting (better than age or education) and that the patriotic section of the pro-EU movement used British rather than English symbols.
I'm not sure i've ever met anybody who is pratriotic and Pro-EU.
The only people who are noisily anti-English in British politics are the SNP.
I would argue new labour were fairly anti-English.
Opposition to Muslim immigration, which has very little to do with the EU.
Agreed, up until the the EU allowed millions of people to march in through schengen.
hard-working law-abiding culturally-Christian immigrants was not a vote winner.
First of all, the reputation of the Poles and other Eastern Europeans as hard working the is completely overblown and is a good indication that they have never worked in industry in England. Anecdotally, the major difference between a Polish forklift driver and an English one is the Polish ones don't look back when they're reversing. And when you get to the other Europeans (Romanians, Bulgarians, etc), trying to get any work out of them at all is difficult, often they will pretend they don't speak English, even when you have had a conversation with them before.
Second of all, law abiding? ehhhh, maybe. They don't tend to commit too much violent crime, and most of it is "mutual combat".
Third of all, White working class people don't care if the people who are replacing them are culturally Christian.
WisheyWashey
10mo ago
It‘s main goal (and legitimacy derived from it) was the prevention of war between france and germany (something benelux had a vested interested in) by combining war-making materials markets. Just because it‘s taught in school doesn‘t mean it‘s naive nonsense.
The US and Soviet troops secured the European peace after the war.
Since the EU is a rather invisible, undefined blob otherwise, it is what you need it to be.
I agree. One of the funny things about Brexit is that the EU became everything to everybody.
The EU didn‘t fill Birmingham with pakistanis
True.
Nanterre with algerians
True.
Malmö with syrians
False. They allowed them to march through the Schengen area.
Maybe secede from them
I would if I could.
WisheyWashey
10mo ago
Protection from, and recovering from, the Soviet (Russian) Empire. I don't think it's controverisal to say that the idea of, and reaction to, the EU is different in the east and the west.
WisheyWashey
10mo ago
The reason I think the BBC article is noteworthy, most of all, is because it observes that contrary to the previous bouts of nationalistic populism that inspired Brexit and Euroscepticism, this surge in far-right political support seems to be dovetailing with support for the EU:
The fundamental issue that the EU had in England was that it lacked legitimacy. What's more, it never attempted to build any legitimacy, it always held the England in disdain. Therfore English populists (and the far right) would rage against a government that they felt was imposed on them. Notably, pro EU people in England don't express themselves in favour of the EU, but against England. You would find it difficult to find one who could name the European commissioner.
Continentals don't have that issue. The EU was started, for Germany, to allow themselves back into the European community, for France, to rebuild and continue the French power in Europe stretching back centuries, and for the Netherlands, Belgium, etc, to stop (excessive) domination by another country.
It makes sense that European populism and far right movements would fit more neatly into the European Union.
I don't really disagree with any of this. But this isn't what motivates your average normie (like this guys sister) or your average muslim.
Your average pro-palestine protester isn't motivated by anti-white bias, you would probably find it difficult to find one who had anything positive to say about whites.
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