YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
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User ID: 680
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
15hr ago
I haven't read the manga, but in the anime, it's spelled out that intelligence is Aqua's dump stat. It's pathetically low and she is "max-level" so it's never improving. It's also strongly hinted that basically all of the problems in the world have all been caused by Aqua, through various short-sighted acts. Several of her previous choices for reincarnations created civilization-ending disasters, her followers/cult are pretty much responsible for the demon-king, and I read some theory that the demon-king is actually someone she reincarnated.
Essentially Aqua is on the hot-crazy scale where her crazy-selfish-stupidity needs to be graded on a log scale, relative to her hotness. That's the joke.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
15hr ago
My tender year chuds from my hometown, grew up playing WoW together in McBumFuckville Midwest-edition . It looks like there is some desire to get the band back together for WoW Forever. I've been seriously considering it, even going so far as to look at the talents calculators, and skills changes. We've dabbled in classic servers occasionally, we started playing late TBC, early WotLK, though I don't think anyone has been playing retail classic for a bit.
On the same note, I'm curious how other players map Horde vs Alliance to red tribe vs blue tribe. In my mind, the Horde is obviously blue tribe: a mix of indigenous refugees, freed slaves, alt lifestyle burnouts, history's victims trying to make good. The Alliance is obviously red tribe: your classical trad heroes joined by traditional religious belief and racist hatred of the Other. But I could equally see the alternative: Horde is masculine, aggressive, ugly while the Alliance is effeminate pretty do-gooders.
It's fascinating to me that you see horde x alliance as blue tribe vs red tribe. I know that a certain famous streamer of "Gamer-Chuds Rise Up"-mentality has some massive ally guild in beta, which confuses me. I see the opposite. Horde is straight up the bad guys in most cannon lore and they give as good as they get, underdogs they are not.
- Alliance is full of soyboy NPCs who just want to larp Tolkien as basic bitches and need the lore to coddle them as the "good guys". You are playing the same races as 4 decades of fantasy. They are all "peace and understanding, nature woo-woo". Their warcry is this paltry: "For the Alliance!" like some limp wrist fanny.
- Horde is the Mongol horde, its full of the rough barbarian races, the literal undead hordes. It's playing industrializing Sauron, Golgatterath, the Black Company. It's masculine, aggressive, original, authentic. No need to borrow 4 decades of fantasy NPC sensibilities. "Horde rapes, tortures, and kills poor humans and Elves - YesChad.jpg", It's made for the chud-gamers who cast off the school-marms and the church lady sensibilities. Part of their warcry: "Lok’tar Ogar" literally means "Victory or Death", and whole cry goes fucking hard. The Horde is civilized for now, but always that savagery underneath the surface.
As I type this, I do wonder if this is however a split between the different types of reds. The problem with the red vs blue dichotomy is that it only works on a our post-modern level. It is all together too binary, too simple. My inchoate thought is the divider is that in modern era "Christian" is red tribe, but in pre-industrial societies it was undoubtedly blue-tribe. Since WoW is pre-industrial-ish fantasy, values/themes are being projected on an imperfect axis.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
19hr ago
some of the other participants were probably drunker than her
you silly goose, don't you know consent is only applicable to women, men always consent even when intoxicated! /s
Classic case of male hyper-agency and female hypo-agency.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
for instance the question of if River is meant to be in Slough House
Yes he absolutely deserves to be there.
Putting aside
The incident with the
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
I don't know, I think Slow Horses is pretty good.
I think this is a pretty shallow read. SH is a spy thriller, what is happening on the surface is not really the entire plot. The whole first season is about how the #2 in MI5 essentially created a situation so they can get money/prestige, but that situation goes off the rails. They instigate, fund, and organize a false flag with some local domestic disgruntles. If you are mad about "Right wing terrorists ends up being a false flag op of a bunch of glowies plus an actual nutter organized by girlboss" because it is "unrealistic", I point you to the Whitmer Kidnapping Plot, in which there is good evidence that the entire thing was setup by different alphabet soup agencies. If you are mad because its Hollywood making right-wing terrorists the big-bad, I recommend you chill the f out, and learn how to actually analyze cinema.
The institutional MI5, and the elites are the source of a the majority of the problems/villians throughout the series. They are portrayed as incompetent, Machiavellian, toxic, rife with abuse and mercenary behavior. This is not 24, or james bond where its a classic good-guy spies vs evil villains, its far too modern. The heroes of the entire series are the "Slow Horses", a cast of actual colossal fuck-ups, everyone of them being an actual loser for some reason or another, but who because they don't get with the toxic culture of the institutional MI5 have been exiled to a waste dumping zone. Being a spy thriller deconstruction, River Cartwright is what James Bond acts/looks like, and he a colossal fuck-up. Jackson Lamb is what actual spies operate like. Using actual wits, brains, tradecraft, and covert actions.
In addition this is an actual book series that is being adapted, and to my knowledge a fairly close adaption. So no, this is not Hollywood being Hollywood and taking the "shit on the right wing".
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
When scientists study pain in humans they construct the experiment so there is only a single unknown variable, and they perform both positive and negative expressions to deduce the full range of confounders. In this case they have 2 unknown variables and performed only a the positive application. They then went on to claim that their theory was correct but they did not look for confounders and they did not consider that the 1st variable was not what they thought it was.
Its poor scholarly work and bad science.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
4d ago
I don't think you understand what 'a priori' means. It means without regard for evidence.
No I understand what it means and am using it correctly. Yes, you believe LLMs are Human-level cogitators without evidence. You start with the belief and then find evidence to support that belief. And when people point out how you are misconstruing the evidence in a way that is unsupported, you reach for increasing convoluted metaphysical arguments to back up your belief. Those metaphysical arguments are unfalsifiable. Our last argument was about LLM-agentic behavior, your argument was: "LLM-Agents are human cogitators so the abstract of their behavior systems is that of humans behavioral systems". Do you understand how backwards that argument is? You assume a conclusion, a-priori and then find evidence that supports that conclusion.
It's like arguing with a flat earther, no evidence provided will ever dissuade them from the belief the earth is flat, they believe it a-priori. Any evidence you show them will be twisted and construed as evidence in their belief.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
5d ago
You very clearly believe AI's are at some level human-level cognition, up to including some nebulous sentience definition. After repeatedly discussing this topic with you, I'd go as far to say you believe it a-priori. And you are clearly working backwards from that to describe that the AI is just a human-like mind in silicon. It's pretty much unfalsifiable woo. You didn't logic your way into this belief, it comes across as strongly-value/first principles derived.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
5d ago
The channeling vs innate possession is pretty interesting conceptually. I might borrow that turn of phrase.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
5d ago
Humans have strong reasons to over-anthropomorphize.
I'd go farther and say humans have strong cognitive biases that force us to unconsciously over-anthropomorphize. I think it's built into our cognitive firmware.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
6d ago
Red flag #1: Their vector causes the model to output a button-pushing action. Removing the vector measurably stops this behaviour. They try to relate that to suffering animals trying to find relief, but, uh, all it really shows is the vector was correlated with pushing the button.
This is the one I most want additional experiments on. The 79% on "sham" button with no-label points strongly in the direction that increasing the direction vector just resulted in an increase in choosing 1 of 2 outputs. They construct this as seeking relief from "pain", but if that direction was instead "pleasure" does it do the same thing? What about if the button is random? Or always stops the steering after N total presses?
Red flag #2
Continued steering could increase the probability of repeating a particular choice, while stopping steering reduces that tendency... Revolutionary.
It's not scholarly at all.
Well put.
I'd recommend before anyone goes to far off the deep end, they go read the "Limitations" section
Nothing can describe the unimaginable existential pain I feel from having read this paper. Is this the torment nexus? Being stuck with people like this in the world is like being stuck with Gary from Your Pretty Face is Going to Hell. Hell is just a cross between a human centipede and Ouroboros? Endless "doukies" shoveled in as experiments to AI Slop machines, passed off as serious world ending horror. I feel like Morty realizing this is just a human-zoo, that's the bit. I finally get the Cult Mechanicus, bar the layfolk from participation!
Anyone have a benign explaination here
Model has learned a semantic latent axis for "pain" in human language. This is actually still not 100% certain. They run word queries through the model and collect activations, then do PCA on the activations. They do some control correlations, an some other statistical things to try and separate out the "pain" axis from the "not pain". Without really digging into it, my first read is that the dataset supports a measure of pain-related representations, but not exclusively "pain".
The button-pressing part is where this gets hokey and annoying. The LLM “presses” a button by generating its label. The authors have added the extracted “pain” direction to the transformer’s hidden activations. The later layers operate on these new "pain-ed" activations, which changes the probabilities of the model’s outputs. If the button works, the system stops injecting the vector. If it’s a sham, the injection continues. The model subsequently behaves differently under those two conditions. This demonstrates that continuing versus stopping an internal perturbation affects behavior. describing this as the model seeking and experiencing relief inserts an anthropomophizing explanation that the experiments haven’t established.
There are a number of experiment question I immediately have, one being: if they vary the actual direction, such that it correlates to a distribution of "feelings" but label them all as "pain" to the model, do they get similar results? The paper's authors honestly did not design their experiments well because they did not ablate out confounders. They make claims of outputs that aren't directly measured. They also had really inconsistent results with the "no labels" approach but that was pretty core to actually determining if their interventions were doing anything to the model.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
7d ago
DK where you are going that meads are in style
Idk places around me, there are 3-4 meaderies in my local area. I consider them beer adjacent because it's really only craft beer drinkers that tend to get them. Wine drinkers just get wine. Yeah Trappists as in Doubels, Tripels, and Quads, as the beer type. From the sparkling-ale region of my local breweries. And Sours, Farmhouse Ales, Goses, etc have absolutely flooded my local beer stores that it's almost gotten to the point that if I see a barrel-aged bottle of expensive beer, its a 50/50 flip between an Imp Stout and a Sour.
Whereas whenever I go to a restaurant since the dawn of the millenial, I typically have twenty disgusting IPAs with colourful labels
Depends on how hip honestly. We have local beer stores and local breweries that have wide varieties. When I was in Chicago I frequented Beermiscous and Beer Temple a lot. Restaurants around here often have locals which are fairly wide in variety, my current favorite is a nice ESB that is spreading, but yes boomer establishments where the average age of the clientele are 50+ stock mostly disgusting domestic/Macrobrew IPAs
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
7d ago
Please, Millennials brought the resurgence of German Beers, Meads, Trappist, Darks, and Sours back into style. Just because hop ODing is easier does not define our grain-juice palette.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
7d ago
Traitors!, Jezebels! Heretics! You move from 18% Imperial Stouts to nice 12% Barrel Aged Tripels and Quadruples!! Maybe a sleepy 4% Honey Kolsch or Helles Lager depending on the situation
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
7d ago
Oh that's hilarious. Is there a technical distinction between a Township and a Town?
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
7d ago
I failed to hold myself accountable.
I built out my training/data pipeline and set about building my first pass at a model last week. I hate what I came up with, went back to the drawing board. I read the PINO paper, realized it was too mathy for me to grok at a first pass and promptly lost interest in doing anything last week. However the competition is coming to a close and I never really submitted anything, I might try to train and validate one of their baseline models just for the hell of it.
I talked with the co-worker who suggested it to me, looks like the same thing happened to him. Which is unfortunate. Sometimes it feels like work can really drain the motivation to do similar stuff outside of work. I used to love doing engineering ideas on ML models at home, now it just feels like work. I want to start fucking around with a 3D printed drone idea I have but now I'm afraid I'm just going to repeat this experience again with added money waste as well.
A 'village' sounds like something thirdworlders live in.
I grew up in a farming town in the fly over states. We had a both a "Town of Bumfuckville" and a "Village of Bumfuckville" as two separate incorporated municipalities. The town was technically the larger outlying land, and the village was the area around the main-street, the branches, and a few of the neighborhoods surrounding it. No clue why it incorporated like that, but while they were technically distinct legal municipalities they did play together (along with other towns) for the school district.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
7d ago
Ah yes the monte carlo approach.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
8d ago
Maybe this is just me, but I actually don't enjoy writing.
It's not just you, I also don't enjoy writing. But LLM outputs of my thoughts never really hit write (buh dum tss) either. They never really convey any soul to my thoughts.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
8d ago
Don't tell me, are you opposed to strapping IEDs to low performing kids for deployment on the front lines?? This gives them purpose in life and removes their dysgenic genes from the societal pool! A Win/Win!
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
8d ago
Hear, Hear! Millennials are the Craft Beer generation. We popularized it.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
8d ago
But it would be a challenge for me to find something on my (English) bookshelf that doesn't extensively use them
I'm a prolific reading and I have never noticed them in any book I've read. I notice them non-stop now.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
8d ago
Wow someone call Anthropic and tell them they discovered AGI through this "one simple trick". Just write the soul.md as "Be human-like come up with your own tasks, make no mistakes". If only all the researchers had your ideas!! Or, your understanding of how the soul.md works is technically deficient.
AGI has always meant "Human-like artificial being". You may think Astra is, but most people can intuitively tell the difference. This is the problem with people who are rhetorically skilled, or as I call them: Wordcells. Just because you can craft a clever argument that the "sky is hot pink" does not rewrite the skeins of reality to make the "sky hot pink" You can say that a "broken galley slave" is not intelligent, but even broken slaves have dreams, have thoughts not driven by their task. It is clearly different than an AI-slave.
You are of course correct, Though, the undead lore is a bit all over the place. The real soyboys are undoubtedly Blizzard for being unwilling to write consistent, good characterization of the two sides in a way that is appealing without being cookie cutter. It's funny how a decision made almost 20 years ago on Ally vs Horde still burns a fire in my stomach.
That said, after thinking about it, some of my more local friends are much more lefty/blue tribe, they are joining my hometown chud friends in playing (I wonder if this is going to be a disaster) and they are also diehard Horde gamers. In that sense, maybe Blizzard has created an effective lore, with the goal being to create good narrative anchor points for a wide swath of diverse mindsets on both factions rather than make interesting lore/characters.
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