ZeStriderOfDunedain
Ze Strider
Maybe it was the weather, but that night I found her very alluring.
User ID: 812
IMO the polarised nature of the discourse guarantees an endless enfilade of bad takes deployed as gotchas. Gen Z seems to have way more social outcasts than their parents' generation, and almost no one knows how to discuss the phenomenon without ruffling feathers.
"This is why no one likes you!"
"Well what about Brad? Everyone likes him!"
A lot of TRP is just crude locker room talk. Some interesting pattern recognition mixed with some bullshit. You still have to observe the world for yourself and decide which parts actually align with reality. Realistically, an average man can meet the standards of his looksmatch, but he usually has to put in the legwork in the initial stages. Failing repeatedly at that breeds bitterness, which then turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy and repels potential partners. A character flaw? Maybe. At the same time, there is an undercurrent of progressive platitudes that insists that in a western style dating environment, women would claw off their fingers before dating a Trump voting man. Both things can be true. Unlikeable vibes make dating much harder, and plenty of women still date objectively shitty men.
The discourse rarely manages to hold both observations in its head at once.
First, it seems weird that people go so hard on clavicular when stuff like this is accepted (at least by the online left).
The online left's problem with Clavicular is that he's part of the manosphere. That is the bottom line and his surgeries are ancillary to it, at most. It's just terrible optics for progressive gender values when a neurotic out-and-out misogynist influencer faces little trouble picking up young attractive women in Miami. Acknowledging this would vindicate incels, in their mind.
Of course, F1nn is not a good trans representative, being a pornstar and all, but I do think he represents a good part of why the online trans communities seem so weird.
It is disturbing and it comes with the territory. Social reinforcement, financial incentive and ideological capture create a feedback loop where "just a little more feminisation" becomes the rational next step. Add in a heavy dose of victim complex, and toxic acceptance of the most extreme variety of "self-expression" becomes necessary to prove the concept. ""Look man, no offense, but that sounds unhinged" sounds awfully close to what the transphobes tell me all the time. How can I repeat that line while being trans myself?"
Nikocado Avocado was my first thought as well. It needs to be studied how someone who began with a seemingly normal personality and approachable demeanor could descend into such a grotesque, self destructive public spectacle for... clicks? The psychological arc is fascinating and deeply disturbing.
The closest example from the pre-social media times I can think of were probably carnival sideshow performers or certain extreme vaudeville acts, people who willingly turned their bodies and personal degradation into public entertainment for money and attention. But these people were usually born with a condition that led to their unfortunate appearance, and they had no better means of putting food on the table. I can't imagine someone having access to better choices and still choosing to go down this road.
Fortunately, Nikocado secretly lost weight years ago and got back his former weight.
Should we accommodate them?
Only if we could replace them with cool action hero augmentations!
a 10 person can be completely sincere in their feelings but also mentally unwell.
I get what you're saying, but there are hormonal factors behind gender dysphoria in adults. I doubt there is an equivalent variable in wanting to saw off your limbs beyond a sick fetish. FWIW I'm happy to still classify gender dysphoria as a mental illness and homosexuality as disability-adjacent, even though I don't have any issue with either on moral grounds.
"Aura" might be my favourite word in zoomer lingo, I can't think of a non or pre-zoomer equivalent. Aura dramatically shapes hagiographies.
When a high profile target is killed by an underdog striking against overwhelming power, the killer earns significant aura bonus for themselves and their cause. David striking down Goliath was a heroic act of resistance. The power asymmetry makes the killer look righteous.
On the flip side, when the assassin is understood to be the more powerful or unprincipled actor - like blood soaked royals murdering dissidents - that creates a martyr narrative for the victim's side and makes the killer look like a coward. Maybe blaming Israel raises his martyr standing, the insinuation being that he was especially threatening to ZOG world order. And painting George Floyd as an example of systemic oppression harkens back to civil rights era resistance narratives.
But the resistance narratives don't work in either case. Charlie Kirk's killing is pattern-matched to his final act of defending 2A at a college campus, add to the fact his killer seems to be a schizo with murky motives. Tragic, certainly. But heroic? Not really. Re Floyd, the resistance narrative cannot hold up when it was your (not YOUR "your") side rioting and burning small businesses for an entire summer, and cancelling people left and right with the entire media ecosystem defending your behaviour. I do agree that the memeing was organic in both cases though.
I bring these dates up because your post implied that MeToo petered out because of a raft of similar claims that people stopped taking seriously
I'm not claiming the movement petered out cleanly in one summer. But it did break down into a lower grade yet persistent cultural enforcement mechanism. The timeline nitpicking doesn't take away the fact that MeToo normalised treating accusations as sufficient grounds for professional and social destruction in far too many cases. The cases involving high-profile names going unpunished were the motte. The bailey was many, many smaller cases with varying levels of credibility, but decisions being made purely to appease the online mob. This is like nuking an entire city to kill a couple hundred terrorists. The online mob, a phenomenon that did not exist to nearly the planetary proportions just a few years prior, was the backbone of MeToo. A self-righteous and frankly, ignorant social force animated by a twisted sense of justice, that does not believe in a process beyond believing the accuser's word (sourced from social media, the uncontested bastion of truth and objectivity), and is so easily manipulated, probably should not have a say in these matters.
By timing the revelations when she did, Feinstein ensured that the administration couldn't pull the nomination without causing the Supreme Court to start the fall term short one conservative justice, which would have benefited Democrats.
And that reveals the double standard at the heart of the whole affair. Yes, Feinstein sat on the letter for strategic reasons. Yes, the timing was political. But that's exactly the problem. The Democrats weaponised a decades-old, uncorroborated allegation at the last possible moment to derail a nomination. They didn't bring it forward early for a proper vetting, they leaked it (or allowed it to leak) at the eleventh hour for maximum damage. It was calculated lawfare and the GOP knew it. The process was already a circus by this point.
The GOP and most conservative commentators did not take the position that the matter should be investigated and adjudicated, but that the accusations should be discounted on their face. "Believe all women" may not be a tenable policy, but neither is "assume all women are lying for personal or political gain".
You call it "discounted on their face." I call it recognising a political ambush when you see one. The fact remains, the presumption of innocence wasn't abandoned by the GOP. The false dichotomy of "believe all women" versus "assume all women are lying for personal or political gain" is exactly the problem. The sane position is simpler and more rhetorically humble: "I'm sorry for what you're going through but I don't know you. I don't know the accused. I wasn't there. I don't possess the means to verify your claims. I'm not implying you're lying, I'm asking you to show basic merit to your claims when you're asking the public and institutions to defenestrate someone over them." This is where the online mob fails the bar, not that they intended to pass anyway.
Whatever problems there were with Ford's story, it was difficult to conclude that they were fabricated out of whole cloth; she had made the accusations privately on several occasions beginning in 2012, and it would be ridiculous to assume that it was all part of some long-term setup as if she had a crystal ball and knew that he'd be nominated for the Supreme Court one day.
Ford's story had serious problems from the start. Massive memory gaps (duh), no corroboration from people she named, changing details, and a history of left-wing activism. "She mentioned it privately multiple times since 2012" is weaksauce, frankly. People tell stories to friends for all kinds of reasons, including (mostly) personal. And none of those supposed confidants came forward with contemporaneous evidence anyway. You don't need a "long-term setup" to explain this. And FYI, I'm not saying this was the case. But it is a possibility that cannot be ignored. Point being, we don't know.
Of course we have to take them seriously. The entire movement was based on the idea that, despite awareness campaigns and legal protections dating from at least the 1980s, this kind of behavior was still disturbingly common and still not taken seriously.
Look, I wasn't expecting to debate MeToo on TheMotte in 2026. In hindsight, the movement blew up well beyond its stated principles. The "overwhelming majority was workplace harassment claims with corroboration" line is true for the NYT's carefully curated list of big fish. It is necessarily not true for the ambient cultural wave that swept through every industry, university, and social circle. MeToo created an environment where a single accusation - often years old, often with no contemporaneous evidence, often from someone who may or may not have a vendetta - was enough to trigger professional death. Believe women became the default. This didn't stay confined to Weinstein and Spacey, it also infected the middle ground, and that's where the real damage was done.
There simply isn't any evidence that a lot of people were getting railroaded or that nobody was asking serious questions
This isn't a decibel contest, there are no objective metrics to quantify social media noise that I can just link to. There was a cultural norm where accusations, especially from women, carried enormous presumptive weight, and questioning them was socially radioactive.
Ansari's where there was no factual dispute over what happened, just whether it was appropriate
The fact that a bad date with pressure but no clear non-consent became national conversation under the MeToo banner shows how far the evidentiary bar had dropped. And it wasn't even the alleged victim that went to the tabloid, a friend of hers did. This was not an outlier. It was the new standard in action.
This is why I don't understand the blowback from it, which largely suggests that none of these claims are credible and that we should just ignore them, because even subjecting the accused to an investigation would be too much of a punishment. What basically happened in the end was that women came out and said that something was true, that this kind of behavior wasn't being taken seriously enough, and conservative opponents came out and told them that they had no desire to take it seriously. That's what it all boils down to.
You keep weakmanning again and again. The blowback was "normal standards of evidence and skepticism should apply before we treat an accusation as sufficient grounds for professional and social destruction." The movement was trying to replace those norms with faith-based decision making. No one was arguing against investigating claims, that is exactly what they were advising. Go to the right authorities and let them do the job. If a decision was made following an exhaustive investigation and your claims were substantiated, great. Not a problem. But the online vigilantism was the real engine. This is the part that MeToo's defenders keep minimising. A self-righteous digital crowd that wasn't there, doesn't know any of the people involved, has no access to evidence, is motivated to lie for clicks and engagement, and is primarily driven by signaling virtue. That mob gets to have the loudest voice in deciding someone's fate, treating due process as an annoying inconvenience at best? That is what made the signal-to-noise ratio catastrophic.
Democracy is already "mob rule" and nothing will stop the Collins campaign and conservative media from repeating the allegations against him
Certainly, I have many reservations with involving the "court of public opinion" before the allegations are formally investigated and some degree of plausibility is established. It's a problem I don't have a workable solution for, short of CCP style censorship. My contention is, we're supposed to accept that unproven sexual allegations alone should be able to dictate political affairs, but not ask critical questions.
but I am free to judge you off whatever standard I please, including explicitly unfair and biased ones.
In practice, if this person was later found to be innocent and had an otherwise good chance of winning the elections, haven't you basically shot your own foot? There are literally no cultural antibodies against situations like this. At least the GOP can defend their own.
I'm not aware of single MeToo incident that involved a single individual making accusations about an isolated instance of sexual misconduct that happened decades ago.
I said several years ago, not decades ago. Meaning a large enough window for people to forget or misremember key details about the incident and for key pieces of evidence to no longer exist. Aziz Ansari comes to mind, and he even apologised to her afterwards. There was also Jeremy Soule in the games industry, accusations surfaced 10 years after the alleged incident and he went off-grid afterwards. Chris Avellone was accused of sexual misconduct that allegedly took place in undisclosed time periods, two of his accusers retracted the accusations and settled a libel suit outside of court. I don't know if this counts, but Depp v Heard involved alleged incidents (including sexual) spanning years.
it didn't prevent his Supreme Court confirmation
Because the GOP is understood to be on the "man" side of gender politics, which allows for presumption of innocence (not just legally, but socially and professionally). If he was a Democrat, he would've been dropped like a hot potato.
documenting over 200 incidents, the overwhelming majority of which involved some kind of workplace harassment
I don't doubt the stories NYT picked up and ran with actually met some degree of plausibility to formally report, but MeToo was an ambient enforcement of social pressure to listen and believe countless stories with varying levels of believability. We have to just accept that misconduct allegations could surface at any point and we should take every one of them very seriously, but never seriously ask critical questions.
I followed it up with another question.
And would you be shocked if those allegations were then found to be fabricated next week?
You know why MeToo ran out of mileage?
The signal-to-noise ratio of the allegations was probably the worst we've ever seen at the time. Becky accuses Brad on twitter, incident happened somewhere in LA several years ago so no evidence exists, she was super scared so no police complaint was filed, you know the drill. And she's definitely not lying because "you don't lie about these things and it's hard to lie about it rape".
Except, it's the digital age. It's never been easier to lie! People lie, casually and often, about far more outlandish things than SA. And the online mob will reliably follow her word to lynch Brad.
You can't reason with the mob, why allow them to get involved at all?
There are people who want Trump gone, we know that. We have precedent within the decade for smear campaigns (see Russiagate) to delegitimise his Presidency. An unverified rape charge at a politically critical moment? Is that not Sus?
Would you be shocked if President grab-her-by-the-pussy is outed as a rapist tomorrow? And would you be shocked if those allegations were then found to be fabricated next week? There's always nebulous "signs" that seem obvious in hindsight, especially when characterised with a more "flexible" personal ethics than what's normal. But the allegations need to stand on their own legs as well. Or we could simply chuck legal procedure, cede to the court of public opinion (read: mob rule) and do only what's optically feasible.
he just needed to be convinced of his own non-guiltiness (or shameless enough) like Trump
But Trump is backed by a party that's typically on the "man" side of politics. Republicans stood firm on Brett Kavanaugh's right to presumption of innocence, and his innocence generally, because their politics allows it (but only for their own).
A rape accusation, true or not, is just terrible optics. And that is my biggest contention with MeToo.
Anyone from any point of your dating/sexual history can reinterpret all old memories to reach for an inflated level of sexual trauma to meet some fuzzy definition of rape, and post their story online. And every time, it happened more than a few years ago, no evidence exists, no police complaint was filed, you (the reader) have no means of verifying it, but you have to performatively take the "victim" side anyway because it's better optics.
Yes, there is this entire possibility that she could be misremembering things or even straight up lying to take down this male public figure, which again you (the reader) have no means of knowing for sure, and yes, it should probably be investigated first. But do NOT ruin the optics by saying that out loud. You DON'T want to be the victim blamer™.
the end of "HR lady" politics
Too soon indeed.
Never again back a Democratic candidate that isn't an HR lady because a heterosexual male with any semblance of sexual history is at risk of getting MeToo'd just before the election.
Platner's accusers sent a message that she needed a glute massage before telling him not to come over
There's a reason why none of these accusations are ever about something that happened last night, and there's always some string of enthusiastic text messages that are totally at odds with the way the accuser currently remembers things. Yet we're expected to accept unverified SA allegations influencing politics and woe be on he who dares question the word of Her Holiness, The Victim™.
Reason #9854904 to just nuke Xitter, reddit, really all the big social medias altogether man. I don't see any other way to one-shot MeToo and its spinoffs and sequels. Becky says Brad raped her at a frat party 10 years ago, Brad says she initiated by putting her hand on his crotch, Becky says but she changed her mind and resisted yet Brad persisted anyway. Now you, dear reader from Florida (incident happened in Maine!), now that you've heard of this incident that you have no means of verifying, you don't have any excuse to NOT do your civic duty as a kind human being to support Becky and castrate Brad. What do you mean "evidence"? Obviously none exists a decade later, that doesn't mean it did NOT happen! What do you mean she's still following his Insta and blocked her dad? Don't you see the optics problem of questioning the victim? Do you not understand she was afraid, the convenient cheatcode to explain away all the critical queries? Stop GASLIGHTING her you privileged MAN!!
When something as vaporous as optics becomes more important than verifiable reality, we should just declare rule of the mob and be done with it. From approaching a girl all the way to her bed, think about the optics! And you're shocked that an entire generation of men would literally splatter at terminal velocity than ask a girl out?
As for the tweet, I'll grant that a rapist is scarier to potentially confront than a non-aggressive boomer dad but Jesus-tapdancing-Christ her grandkids will be repaying the generational aura debt from that one.
I'll reply to you and @hydroacetylene here.
The "no" sounds more like reluctance and unenthusiasm leading to (as @HereAndGone2 puts it) "ugh, go away okay just let him get off then he'll go away". Yes, a sober enthusiastic "yes" (implied or explicitly stated) is the best marker for consent, and no-means-no is a reliable metric for SA. But it's fuzzy and not 100% perfect, awkward sexual encounters and "I said no/I was drunk but we fucked anyway" seemed to be the recurring theme of many MeToo stories. Technically could qualify as rape, but this depends entirely on what this person was feeling at the time.
This discourse gives a lot of "people talking about sex instead of having it" vibes. Even married couples have dry, unenthusiastic sex often. One person is interested, the other isn't. But they'd just do it and be done with it rather than say no and start an argument. Terminally online people who lack the life experience to understand that awkward, iffy, or straight up unsatisfying sexual encounters are a normal, common part of adult life for most people.
The last wave of allegations against Platner purported that he messaged women while being married and used the Kik app, dubbed the "predator paradise". The insinuation was that he may have traded or soilicited child pornography without directly saying something defamatory. It's interesting to see the MeToo language come crawling back and it's the same arguments we've heard before: "women don't lie about such things". Maybe true 20 years ago, but not in the digital age.
I would say it is consistent, he has an "acceptable" standard for what kind of man is allowed to touch his daughter, and how. It's irrational and emotionally conflicting, but that's human emotion I suppose. But would he be thrilled if his girls were clubbing and rotating one night stands, even if he wasn't religious?
That is in line with girl-dad mindset though. Yes, he would eventually come around to a good natured son-in-law with shared values, while wanting to smack the dude who (consensually) pump-and-dumped her.
my aunts are very no-nonsense and probably told their daughters exactly what they what they ought to look for and how to get it, whereas I can't imagine my uncles ever having that conversation with their sons
This is very true, no one tells you what to expect from a girlfriend/wife nor equip you with workable strategies to get it in western style dating context, even if your own parents met that way. And this is despite the fact that men are always expected to make the first move. You have to figure out the entire thing on your own, starting from puberty. My outsider understanding of your family dynamics is that your male cousins settled, and they don't know how (and lack the rizz) to shoot for better.
Girl-dads perpetually see their daughters as 6yo princesses. They don't want them going to prom, they don't like them dating boys. Yes they want grandchild, but ideally through virgin birth. I suspect it makes you subconsciously feel like you spent all your life being her numero uno man just for some guy to stick his dick inside her. And I'm not convinced this can be "socially engineered" away.
A person's background and prior experiences tend to colour their entire outlook, and for a large contingent of reddit atheists, it's pure trauma and resentment. Most will struggle (and make no conscious effort) to separate their emotions from their reading of religious tradition.
Well, it overlaps with Hero gets the Girl (even if THE hero is Luke) part of the male fantasy of growing into status and responsibility. But if you want the female romcom audience to show up, it'll have to be "soap drama wearing Star Wars skinsuit", like Superman & Lois.
the power to censor anything more than realistic CSAM and government secrets from all of these would surely be abused
I'll admit I'm being petty here, and I wouldn't have taken this stance 10 years ago. But the current censorship regime is not neutral. Wokes have spent years freely injecting female and gay-oriented content everywhere while selectively pozzing traditionally straight male spaces. Any potential abuse would likely continue flowing in the same direction.
Because like it or not, some people are intrinsically gay
I'll agree to disagree on education, though if my kid came out as gay I’d probably accept it simply because there aren’t better alternatives. I’m not religious, but I still dislike LGBT while acknowledging the underlying reality that they cannot change who they are. If reliable prenatal testing existed that could detect it, I would abort.
My main contention is that straight male oriented media should be completely off-zone for any kind of woke-washing. This means blockbuster films and AAA video games should be allowed to exclusively pander to straight men without any concessions to women or LGBT. And if this happens through the way of censorship, I wouldn't complain. Consider the backlash ShiftUp faced in Korea because Nikke featured an artwork where the placement of a female's hand somewhat resembled the small penis gesture. Objectively, it's such a ridiculous reach and you can't see it even if you squint extra hard. But as a partisan, I'm happy to see a company signal boosting against misandry after 10 years of unabashed anti-male messaging in western culture.
Nearly every major company, from banks to tech giants to consumer brands, performs the annual pride month ritual of slapping the rainbow flag on their social media, homepages, and marketing. Pro-LGBT content is ambient, institutionally enforced, and aggressively pushed into the public square whether you’re looking for it or not. Just try offering the mildest pushback, “I don’t care about this, keep it in your bedroom, I don’t want it in my face constantly”, and brace yourself for a barrage of HR scare words. As for Brokeback Mountain, let's say it bombed. The entire pop culture media apparatus would have blamed “bigoted audiences” for failing to show up enthusiastically enough for this raw emotional (homosexual) experience, and the failure would be clear proof that society is still full of regressive deplorables who need re-education.
But somehow I feel defending them protects the art that I do like and opinions I hold
I'm glad we can say the quiet part out loud now. I'll go further, I'm much more petty and partisan about this. I'm inclined to defend what the wokes outrage against. I'd be perfectly fine with conservatives censoring homosexuality in television. Wokes rail against male gaze on principle. But they are perfectly capable of arresting the slippery slope short of censoring female gaze/gay oriented media. I don’t want to cede the rhetorical terrain or adopt their framework. Even when they latch onto real issues, like domestic violence or sexual assault, I’m deeply suspicious of letting them set the terms. Their track record shows they weaponise these issues as cudgels against outgroups. If someone is especially invested in race riots and sexual violence, more often than not, you'd be right to suspect their real priority is narrative control and status enforcement against whites and men. I think they're perfectly aware of this too, wokes rarely let you discuss men's issues without extracting ritual deference to feminism first. And why they breathlessly defended Amber Heard, because even if they can intellectually acknowledge the veracity of the verdictv, "women never lie about DV/SA" is just a flag to be defended at all costs.
Sure, but I think that the sort of actual unambiguous sexism that used to be roundly condemned now draws less outrage than it used to
That was my point though, nothing is immune to "crying wolf". You don't have infinite oxygen for anything. In around half the world, the central examples of sexism are still "women are just baby machines", which is still abhorrent to most western people. What they're too exhausted to combat is someone simply tweeting "your body, my choice". Because in your immediate proximity, and near ambient personal experience, "sexism" is mostly "this 2D comic book woman is too busty!" Getting tired of verbal cheapshots need not numb you to the actual act itself.
there is a floor on how much the power of the word can erode
Okay, we have a floor. But where's the ceiling? Can a normal person just stand upright without hitting their head?
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Iran war picks up again
The US said it launched a fresh wave of strikes on over 100 targets in Iran after Tehran struck a ship passing through the Strait of Hormuz, one month after the MOU to end the conflict.
Iran said it closed the waterway until further notice and warned of a severe response to US aggression. And within hours of the US strikes, Iran said they had hit a US base in Jordan, while the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain intercepted missiles and drones from Iran.
And Israel keeps striking southern Lebanon, despite the MOU.
Setting aside the many rounds of
griftstalks, there's something to be said about great power adjacent warfare in 2026. Like Afghanistan and Ukraine, Iran is looking like this distinctive category of forever conflicts. Protracted, managed stalemates where neither side is willing to commit the resources and manpower towards a decisive victory, yet neither is prepared to accept political humiliation by surrendering. In Ukraine, Russia lacks the conventional strength for total conquest, while the West supplies enough aid to prevent collapse but not enough for a full on Ukrainian breakthrough.I actually bought the last round of 'talks'. Now I'm blackpilled, we might be lucky if we get out of this in less than 20 years.
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