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I think that both Yglesias but also Peter Savodnik are correct: the current wave of antizionism/antisemitism or however you call it is at the same time caused by behaviour of Israel but also independent of it.
I actually saw this argument from Nick Fuentes couple of months ago, when I watched couple of interviews with him around the time he was on Piers Morgan, just to see what he is about. He described himself as being such pro-American nationalists, as Zionists (including US Zionists) are pro Israel. Israel defines itself as literal Jewish state in its declaration of independence, where you have automatic citizenship as soon as prove your Jewish origin - so an ethnostate if you consider Jews as an ethnicity. It also has explicitly religious underpinnings observing sabbath in public places or outsourcings significant parts of the public life to religious sphere such as marriages (e.g. it is impossible to be gay married inside Israel, you have to travel abroad). It is also unapologetically colonial state in nature, although they use the word "pioneer" or reclamation of land lost thousands of years ago in their form of Manifest Destiny - the reclamation of the Promised Land. It is a state where you have public discussions around immigration, national security, threat of fertility of non-Jewish population toward the primary function of the state as safe haven for Jews to prevent potentiality of another Holocaust and all that.
I think there was an inevitable clash between Israel and current predominant leftist culture. Any other western adjacent nation with similar policies is immediately labeled as ultranationalist or fascist state. Was it also caused by Israel through their behavior since basically 19th century? Of course - but only tangentially. The same critique would be leveled against Israel no matter what. Heck even countries like Ireland or Finland can be blamed for colonialism or be target of such a rhetoric, so there is no defense against that.
I think Fuentes is onto something when he says that the power of Holocaust as a story is weakening, it no longer serves as a shield for a free pass. Israel is viewed as a western democracy, Jews are white colonizers and they are oppressors and not oppressed. I can use hilarious example of Whoopi Goldberg who usually claims that everybody is racist - of course except Hitler, who only engaged in white-on-white conflict of Germans against Jews. And she said it whole year before October 7 and Gaza War. This was at least unspoken ethos and pathos inside significant part of the left, it only strengthened after Gaza war.
People are pissed off because they are having seriously doubt about whether their elites (even the "American first" ones) are more beholden to a small minority group and a different country their own population. Both democrats and republicans (and their counterparts in Europe) are willing to throw away every value they claim to uphold, and humiliate themselves to an extreme degree in defence of this one country.
Which other group than zionist will have republicans talking about safe spaces on campus? Which other group than zionist will make democrats eager to collaborate with Donald Trumps ICE to have students homes raided on campus? Which other country than Israel will have such undying loyalty that the US ambassador (and their european labdogs) pull out of a Nagasaki peace ceremony to commemoratate the nuclear bombs on Japan, because said country was disinvited?
These are not normal behaviors. And I think its undercommunicated how much this servility towards Israel from both sides of the political spectrum is pushing people towards both antizionism and antisemittism.
Oh yes, this is the Fuentes critique I was talking about. It is unironically impressive how successful "Israel First" policy is. Their politicians were able to wrap foreign dignitaries around their fingers and train them like dogs to implement their policies. The point being that people like Fuentes admire this chutzpah, they want USA to become the same. Everybody will bow to US supremacy under cross or some such. People in UN should be in awe and they should persecute antiamericanism and christophobia with the same if not greater zeal as antisemitism even as Americans bomb their adversaries to stone age. All media from NYT and WSJ and Fox or whatever will be united in this righteous messaging, EU diplomats and their regional media will parrot it in the same way they lap the current propaganda. It will be amazing.
I was commenting on leftists. For them Israel is yet another white supremacist western colonizer, they do not admire Israel at all. In a sense Gaza war does not matter, the moral standard is "historical oppression" and history is unchanged - Palestinians were and always will be historically colonized and oppressed even if they clear Palestine from the river to the sea. This is what Yglesias vs Savodnik discussion is about.
This is imo a strawman version of the leftist position that seems entirely derived from zionist interpretation (not saying you are a zionist, but most of your sources for this probably are). Yglesias used to openly advocate for the full ethnic cleansing of palestinians from Gaza. He is by all accounts a jewish supremacist, and frequently strawmans both the left and right anti-Israel position. But he is seeing the writings on the wall and trying to stake a position on Israel that is less repugnant for the average non jewish supremacists.
I am active in my local pro-Palestinian community. There are all walks of life here (including quite a few formerly zionist christians), but leftist dominate. The wider leftist position is quickly becoming the normie position because it is actually very defensible: "dont send money and weapons to a country full of religious nuts who believe they are justified in getting revenge on a defenceless population full of children". You honestly dont need to have any positive ideas about Palestine to reach this conclusion at all.
Most people are just horrified by Israels relentless violence towards the women and children of Palestine, and even more horrified by all the supposedly good people who are defending it. I dont think I have heard the word "historical oppression" once, and no one pretends that Palestinians are saints who can do no wrong. Nearly all advocacy is aimed at the innocent children in Gaza and excludes anyone who could possibly be a militant. Leftist have many terrible positions, but this is not one of them.
Sure, I could get under policy of not sending billions of dollars to Israel. Except it is probably more complicated given that Israel is an ally let's say in current conflict with Iran, they literally bombed the country. Whatever you think about this war, if it was caused by Israel or what, the fact is that it is a military ally and thus some support is necessary. US always sent weapons to movements and countries that committed violence. While your stance seems okay to me, it also seems naive.
By the way I am also for instance pissed that there is any help also sent to Gaza. I do not want to have anything to do with that awful place, it is not my responsibility. Let Egyptians and Saudis and other neighbors do that part.
There are people now defending carpet bombing of Nazi Germany or Japan including dropping of nuclear bomb. If this is something that seems unbelievable to you then you probably are not so engaged in this discourse. The problem is that I am horrified by too many things, such as genocide in Darfur, and the overall region of Sahel and other things. I think that there are many conflicts where the moral situation is much clearer.
I am not particularly energized by Palestinians in this sense, I do not see a reason why they should jump as a front issue for me. For instance I am focusing on Ukraine, which has much more direct impact on me. If there would be any other conflict, it would probably be genocidal persecution of ethnicities linked to Christianity in Sahel region especially in Darfur and Nigeria. Everything else is distant.
I am curious. None of your leftie pro-Palestine friends ever used the term colonizer, colonized or colonialism in relation to this shit?
[https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2026/4/20/voters-in-multiple-states-say-iran-war-benefits-israel-and-that-us-military-aid-to-the-country-should-be-halted](This is just one recent poll)
The republicans might be going through a generational loss in the Midterms due to how unpopular the war in Iran and subsequent cost of living crises will be. Everything they fought for might be evaporated, and there might be a generational rift in the party that might upend all power constellations. Democrats arent much better, but are probably likely to benefit from not being the ones who
Besides many European countries stood up to their American ally during the Iraq war and dont think anyone looks back at that and thinks that was a bad thing?
Interesting, do you want to increase aid to Darfur? Would you vote for a politician who took money from a pro-Janjaweed group and defended their actions?
The term colonization is absolutely used about the West Bank and I dont see a problem with that. But again you overestimating the degree to which discourse is about ideology. Most people are just upset about Israels behavior and the suffering of innocents in Palestine.
I said that if anything, the things happening in Darfur or Nigeria are more important to me than fucking Gaza. Not that it essential or that it makes me single issue Darfur voter. I would analyze a politician holistically in line with principle of subsidiarity.
And I think that you are underestimating the degree to which this discourse is captured by ideology. The level of emotion on the left is unhinged, it is just another operation with its own viral energy. I do not believe that it was all just some random thing when from all the conflicts and all the suffering of women and children in the world right now, this one was just randomly taken up by the left and hammered for years. I am not denying that the emotions are genuine, it is just strategically selected to garner sympathy. It is the same for all the leftist causes, like their most successful op so far of killing of George Floyd. Of course there were people genuinely horrified by what happened. But at the same time it was also a cynical operation to ram through policies that the left was preparing for decades. The same shit with Gaza here.
I have a feeling youre not american, because there is no way the pro-Palestinian side is the most unhinged. We literally have a congressman who tweetet: "Nuke Gaza", and a more than one senator who has said they main motivation for doing their job is helping Israel. The pro-Israel side started a multi-months harassment campaign and send death threats to a christian childrens youtuber because she mentioned Gaza in a fundraiser for Save the Children. Ackman tried to get a fellow finance guy fired because his daughter had protested Israel.
This is nothing like George Floyd, where I totally agree than republicans came out much better. The only way you would think this is if youre opinion is entirely filtered through zionist sources.
The behaviour that's referred to here is constant, everyday, ambient exposure affecting people who aren't even directly engaging with the issue, like blocking roads and disrupting unrelated public spaces. In my country, Domino's pizza was barred from a major university event by student groups purely over their continued operations in Israel.
I don't know about Theo Von, but do you believe the woman who called Muslim Democrats the Jihad Squad, and who has maintained for damn near a decade that Zionists are flooding Europe with immigrants to replace the native white population is sincere in her moral apprehensions about the Gaza blockade? We both know she wouldn't want Palestinians in her own country, so is it really about the plight of Palestinian kids or simply sticking the knife to the Jews?
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